Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department
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@wrx7m said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
I charge my phone whenever for however long. After 2 and a half years on my S8+, I didn't notice any decline in capacity. Previously, I had phone with removable batteries and had some bulge/go bad, so I spent the $18 on amazon and bought a replacement. For me, the cost is low enough to not even care if charge cycles were still a thing.
Charge cycles are definitely the thing. They are the largest thing.
Batteries are rated by charge cycle.
But what Scott is trying to sell is a load of shit.
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@JaredBusch said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
@wrx7m said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
I charge my phone whenever for however long. After 2 and a half years on my S8+, I didn't notice any decline in capacity. Previously, I had phone with removable batteries and had some bulge/go bad, so I spent the $18 on amazon and bought a replacement. For me, the cost is low enough to not even care if charge cycles were still a thing.
Charge cycles are definitely the thing. They are the largest thing.
Batteries are rated by charge cycle.
But what Scott is trying to sell is a load of shit.
I meant in terms of full charge to empty. I understand that batteries age and degrade.
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@wrx7m said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
I charge my phone whenever for however long. After 2 and a half years on my S8+, I didn't notice any decline in capacity.
If you do that from the beginning, you won't likely notice. If you did that to a phone with a better training, I bet you would, really quickly.
It's both from talking to an electrical engineer and real world testing, it's consistent across pretty much all modern devices that the traditional cycles still work best.
The only places that state otherwise are consistently companies that make their money from batteries needing to be replaced.
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@JaredBusch said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
But what Scott is trying to sell is a load of shit.
Other than being both logical and observable.
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@JaredBusch said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
The best thing is to run in a cycle from ~80% to ~20% for best life of the battery itself.
Define "best life"? That creates 200% more recharge cycles at least, and takes batteries that would last two days only last for twelve hours. It adds cycles, and adds them fast.
What I'm looking for is batteries that outlast the usefulness of the device without shortening their cycle spans more than necessary. I've not had a batter die on me in forever, and most last for years after most people's devices are useless, and still get nearly their original battery life.
You can claim anything you want, but observation says my way is absolutely correct. And I can take someone crappy battery and generally within a week or two show dramatic improvement. NEver gets back to 100% once you start the bad recharge cycles, but I can train it back from nearly useless to nearly full pretty quickly.
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@scottalanmiller said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
@JaredBusch said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
The best thing is to run in a cycle from ~80% to ~20% for best life of the battery itself.
Define "best life"? That creates 200% more recharge cycles at least, and takes batteries that would last two days only last for twelve hours. It adds cycles, and adds them fast.
Uhm, no, it doesn't create more "recharge cycles". That's not how modern Lithium Ion and Lithium Polymer batteries work. You're degrading the battery faster by fully discharging it.
My Sony phone is the first phone I've had that's actually intelligent about charge/discharge cycles. We'll see how it goes, but I can already tell you it's doing better after 6 months of constant usage.
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I avoid at all costs allowing my phone to completely discharge (Pixel 3) it lasts (if I only use it for text and calls) more than a 24 hour period.
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@travisdh1 said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
Uhm, no, it doesn't create more "recharge cycles". That's not how modern Lithium Ion and Lithium Polymer batteries work. You're degrading the battery faster by fully discharging it.
Actually, yes it creates "cycles" more quickly. That is basic math. 80% to 20% and back is always more often than 100% to 0% and back.
But the point is that full discharge is more damaging.
I personally also feel, but have no science for, that charging to 100% with modern devices is also ok, as the devices are smarter about not overcharging, as long as you unplug as soon as you hit 100%. Not because of overcharging, but because what you need to avoid the most, even more than 0%, is leaving a device plugged in at 100%. Trickle charging to maintain 100% is a cycle every time it happens.
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@JaredBusch said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
I personally also feel, but have no science for, that charging to 100% with modern devices is also ok, as the devices are smarter about not overcharging, as long as you unplug as soon as you hit 100%. Not because of overcharging, but because what you need to avoid the most, even more than 0%, is leaving a device plugged in at 100%. Trickle charging to maintain 100% is a cycle every time it happens.
Right, going to 100% without immediately, manually disengaging the charge was a problem in the past, but that's been a long time now (many years.) Now it goes into a long no-charge phase to avoid both overcharging (very bad) and extra cycles (bad.) If you leave it plugged in indefinitely, that's definitely not the way to go, but that's a different issue.
My phone goes to 100%, then still has a few minutes, then it signals that it is fully topped up to the max and kills the charging. At that time it turns green and flashes the full screen to get my attention. That's when I try to unplug.
I don't always hit zero (power down) but try to get really, really close. Sometimes it is just too much of a pain to reboot at the time when it gets there.
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@travisdh1 said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
Uhm, no, it doesn't create more "recharge cycles". That's not how modern Lithium Ion and Lithium Polymer batteries work. You're degrading the battery faster by fully discharging it.
I've not seen any science or neutral party make this claim. People who sell batteries make this claim, but no one else. It doesn't need to fully discharge the way that old batteries did, that's for sure. But all the original wording on these batteries was "doesn't need to", it slowly slipped over time quietly into "not recommending what we used to do", but without anything that I've seen behind it. Just marketing has changed over time, and often with careful language like "to avoid the phone turning off" and not directly saying what is best for the battery.
It absolutely has more cycles. 80% to 20% is roughly half the battery life. So if that was all that you did, that means two charges for every one of mine. That's doubling. But once you do that, after 3-4 times, you should notice a significant drop in how long it takes to go from 80% to 20% causing yet another increase in charge cycles. My way gets the most per individual charge, and from my own measurements across many devices and many years, gets more from the cycles over time as they get longer.
Example: My watch is rates at a maximum of four days of charge. I get seven after conditioning it. If I recharged it when they recommend, I'd be literally around 400% of the charging cycles!
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@scottalanmiller said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
es for every one of mine. That's doubling. But once you do that, after 3-4 times, you should notice a significant drop in how long it
I don't think that's how charging cycles work. At least that's what I've read - granted - not in a science journal - if your battery is at 100 - down to 50, and you recharge it - that's 1/2 a cycle, if it's at 100 and down to 75, and you recharge it - that's 1/4 cycle.
At least this is what I read.
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Heh, and here I am is someone who doesn't give a shit and prefers to keep it charged whenever it's convenient, because I don't like when it gets low.
And guess what, the phone and battery last for years, longer than I ever needed before updating to a new and improved device. Typically every 2-3 years.
It's great, battery lasts all day because I charge it all night every night, and during the day if I think of it. Sometimes before bed, and it's unplugged all night and still lasts all day because it doesn't move below 99% over night in that case. It's nice never getting low battery!
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@Obsolesce said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
Heh, and here I am is someone who doesn't give a shit and prefers to keep it charged whenever it's convenient, because I don't like when it gets low.
And guess what, the phone and battery last for years, longer than I ever needed before updating to a new and improved device. Typically every 2-3 years.
It's great, battery lasts all day because I charge it all night every night, and during the day if I think of it. Sometimes before bed, and it's unplugged all night and still lasts all day because it doesn't move below 99% over night in that case. It's nice never getting low battery!
This works moderately well if you never kill the battery to where it can't handle one of your waking periods, or you aren't concerned about periods where you can't charge at night. For most people, your approach works and this is why people do stuff this way today - batteries last so long (both per charge and in overall charge cycles) that even beating the crap out of your battery won't kill it to where you can't still use it during the span of time that you want to use the device.
What gets me is that I seem to, for whatever reason, do massive travel or work things that force me to both use my phone a tremendous amount in a single span and go for over 24 hours without reasonable access to power. Sure, I'm better about carrying a battery pack with me for those scenarios, but it's nice to know that your phone will last when you have to do a red eye with no access to power after a full day of work and know that you can still use it for all kinds of stuff the next day.
I also tend to pass phones from me to my wife to the kids, so we keep using them for several years longer than most people do. So overall battery longevity is important as well. Because of my good battery management, my kids' very old devices still have great batteries.
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@scottalanmiller said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
@Obsolesce said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
Heh, and here I am is someone who doesn't give a shit and prefers to keep it charged whenever it's convenient, because I don't like when it gets low.
And guess what, the phone and battery last for years, longer than I ever needed before updating to a new and improved device. Typically every 2-3 years.
It's great, battery lasts all day because I charge it all night every night, and during the day if I think of it. Sometimes before bed, and it's unplugged all night and still lasts all day because it doesn't move below 99% over night in that case. It's nice never getting low battery!
This works moderately well if you never kill the battery to where it can't handle one of your waking periods, or you aren't concerned about periods where you can't charge at night. For most people, your approach works and this is why people do stuff this way today - batteries last so long (both per charge and in overall charge cycles) that even beating the crap out of your battery won't kill it to where you can't still use it during the span of time that you want to use the device.
What gets me is that I seem to, for whatever reason, do massive travel or work things that force me to both use my phone a tremendous amount in a single span and go for over 24 hours without reasonable access to power. Sure, I'm better about carrying a battery pack with me for those scenarios, but it's nice to know that your phone will last when you have to do a red eye with no access to power after a full day of work and know that you can still use it for all kinds of stuff the next day.
I also tend to pass phones from me to my wife to the kids, so we keep using them for several years longer than most people do. So overall battery longevity is important as well. Because of my good battery management, my kids' very old devices still have great batteries.
What's the cell phone average in modern Samsungs for example? It's only math. If the average is 3000 full charge-discharge cycles before reaching 80% capacity, that's like 8 years of one full cycle every day. Even if it was 1/3 of that, it's still great.
To what extent does not fully dischargeing a batter have an effect on a cell phone battery? Does it cut the total charge/discharge cycle rating by half? I really doubt that. I've had good batteries through bad charging habits outlast other batteries I've used with horrible charging habits. I know there are some factors, but I don't think it's as great as some think they are. I believe it has a lot to do with the phone and battery themselves.
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@scottalanmiller said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
I also tend to pass phones from me to my wife to the kids, so we keep using them for several years longer than most people do.
I think this is more common than you might think. It's getting even more so because of the higher and higher costs of phones.
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@Dashrender said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
@scottalanmiller said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
I also tend to pass phones from me to my wife to the kids, so we keep using them for several years longer than most people do.
I think this is more common than you might think. It's getting even more so because of the higher and higher costs of phones.
Aren't phones getting cheaper? Not a lot, just a little? Used to be like $900 for a top end phone, now you can get into them under $700.
But yeah, as phones are getting more and more ubiquitous for younger and younger kids, we don't want to be spending crazy amounts of money on them. Having phones last longer is a big deal. My kids have, thus far, after 10 years of owning tablets and like 5 years of owning phones, gone through exactly one battery in that time, and that was an original iPad that lasted forever as a hand-me-down and in the end it was useless and I don't remember if the battery was an issue or not, even it might have been okay.
Their tablets and phones, even after insane levels of use, get near original battery life still and some of them are crazy old, like two original iPad 2s, and an iPhone 5 that's been through five or six owners!
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@scottalanmiller said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
@Dashrender said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
@scottalanmiller said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
I also tend to pass phones from me to my wife to the kids, so we keep using them for several years longer than most people do.
I think this is more common than you might think. It's getting even more so because of the higher and higher costs of phones.
Aren't phones getting cheaper? Not a lot, just a little? Used to be like $900 for a top end phone, now you can get into them under $700.
But yeah, as phones are getting more and more ubiquitous for younger and younger kids, we don't want to be spending crazy amounts of money on them. Having phones last longer is a big deal. My kids have, thus far, after 10 years of owning tablets and like 5 years of owning phones, gone through exactly one battery in that time, and that was an original iPad that lasted forever as a hand-me-down and in the end it was useless and I don't remember if the battery was an issue or not, even it might have been okay.
Their tablets and phones, even after insane levels of use, get near original battery life still and some of them are crazy old, like two original iPad 2s, and an iPhone 5 that's been through five or six owners!
did you watch a different Apple/Samsung event than me?
Sure huawei and xiaomi are out there, but Huawei is nearly impossible to find in the US, and I don't know anything about availability of xiaomi in the US... so they might be cheaper but if you can't buy them, does that really matter?
I'm only talking US here - granted a few of you have access to equipment outside the US, but overall, the rest of us don't.
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@Dashrender said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
@scottalanmiller said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
@Dashrender said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
@scottalanmiller said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
I also tend to pass phones from me to my wife to the kids, so we keep using them for several years longer than most people do.
I think this is more common than you might think. It's getting even more so because of the higher and higher costs of phones.
Aren't phones getting cheaper? Not a lot, just a little? Used to be like $900 for a top end phone, now you can get into them under $700.
But yeah, as phones are getting more and more ubiquitous for younger and younger kids, we don't want to be spending crazy amounts of money on them. Having phones last longer is a big deal. My kids have, thus far, after 10 years of owning tablets and like 5 years of owning phones, gone through exactly one battery in that time, and that was an original iPad that lasted forever as a hand-me-down and in the end it was useless and I don't remember if the battery was an issue or not, even it might have been okay.
Their tablets and phones, even after insane levels of use, get near original battery life still and some of them are crazy old, like two original iPad 2s, and an iPhone 5 that's been through five or six owners!
did you watch a different Apple/Samsung event than me?
Sure huawei and xiaomi are out there, but Huawei is nearly impossible to find in the US, and I don't know anything about availability of xiaomi in the US... so they might be cheaper but if you can't buy them, does that really matter?
I'm only talking US here - granted a few of you have access to equipment outside the US, but overall, the rest of us don't.
No you seen right, top end phones are still around 1k.
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@Dashrender said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
did you watch a different Apple/Samsung event than me?
Apple is super high cost, but unique. Samsung is good, but not great, and way overpriced because they own exclusively the US market.
But in general, even better phones than Samsung are less. You CAN pay more than top end, but why?
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@Dashrender said in Introducing MeshCentral on SAMIT as a Remote Access and Support Tool for the SMB IT Department:
Sure huawei and xiaomi are out there, but Huawei is nearly impossible to find in the US, and I don't know anything about availability of xiaomi in the US... so they might be cheaper but if you can't buy them, does that really matter?
Xiaomi is very available. Huawei is a pain in the US but the most available phone world wide. And don't forget OnePlus which is higher end than Samsung for like $700.
