Ransomware Management Career Fork
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@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Lack of opportunity is the experience.
But she knows that nothing that she has gone through applies to you, right? I think that @DustinB3403 is correct, none of this is applying experience, it's ignoring observation and experience, right?
Yes conceptually she does. That doesn't mean she isn't being influenced heavily by fear. She has this fear because she went through times of extreme poverty herself. So I think it's both.
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What I'm trying to get at is that she can't be applying experience (at least not in a useful way) or observation. Nor is she risk averse.
@DustinB3403 is correct, I think. This is purely emotion and irrational.
What @wirestyle22 has to understand before having this conversation is that he can't use this as "her experience says this" or "she is being conservative" because both of those things are false and will lead to a useless discussion with her.
Understanding that she is ignoring what she has learned AND being reckless because she is feeling anxious is the problem. That can be tackled, but if you ignore those facts, she will reason that they are being risky and he'll be unable to dispute it.
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@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Lack of opportunity is the experience.
But she knows that nothing that she has gone through applies to you, right? I think that @DustinB3403 is correct, none of this is applying experience, it's ignoring observation and experience, right?
Yes conceptually she does. That doesn't mean she isn't being influenced heavily by fear. She has this fear because she went through times of extreme poverty herself. So I think it's both.
The only way to discuss this with someone being emotional is to take the emotion out of the equation for her. Tell her how employable you actually are and that there are greater risks of losing your current position or at least good money by not considering other job opportunities.
If you respond with (something like this) "I'm making x now and will likely end up at most making Y within the next 5 years if I stay where I'm at, add in the cost of life, and we are actually losing money.
If I take a tiny bit of risk today, and find a position that has greater opportunity then we are better off today for the next 5 years, when compared to what I'm making today (x). "
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@DustinB3403 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Lack of opportunity is the experience.
But she knows that nothing that she has gone through applies to you, right? I think that @DustinB3403 is correct, none of this is applying experience, it's ignoring observation and experience, right?
Yes conceptually she does. That doesn't mean she isn't being influenced heavily by fear. She has this fear because she went through times of extreme poverty herself. So I think it's both.
The only way to discuss this with someone being emotional is to take the emotion out of the equation for her. Tell her how employable you actually are and that there are greater risks of losing your current position or at least good money by not considering other job opportunities.
If you respond with (something like this) "I'm making x now and will likely end up at most making Y within the next 5 years if I stay where I'm at, add in the cost of life, and we are actually losing money.
If I take a tiny bit of risk today, and find a position that has greater opportunity then we are better off today for the next 5 years, when compared to what I'm making today (x). "
I have but there is more to it than that. You guys have seen some of my questionable posts where I lack understanding and cannot even ask a question correctly. I've also posted about how I feel the need to study a lot (and I am) in order to solidify my knowledge enough to get a better job. I'm not extremely confident I can find something either but not because there are no jobs. Just pure honesty here.
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@wirestyle22 take the find a better job out of the entire statement.
You have no way of knowing if the job is better. It's just another job, that has a better offering. The job could be horrible, worst place in the world, but pays more for it.
If you need more benefits, more pay, you'd take that job. Until you found another position that offered more.
The entire conversation is about honesty.
We want more money, perks, etc and the only way to do that is to find another place of employment.
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@DustinB3403 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 take the find a better job out of the entire statement.
You have no way of knowing if the job is better. It's just another job, that has a better offering. The job could be horrible, worst place in the world, but pays more for it.
If you need more benefits, more pay, you'd take that job. Until you found another position that offered more.
The entire conversation is about honesty.
We want more money, perks, etc and the only way to do that is to find another place of employment.
That is what I mean by better
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@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@DustinB3403 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Lack of opportunity is the experience.
But she knows that nothing that she has gone through applies to you, right? I think that @DustinB3403 is correct, none of this is applying experience, it's ignoring observation and experience, right?
Yes conceptually she does. That doesn't mean she isn't being influenced heavily by fear. She has this fear because she went through times of extreme poverty herself. So I think it's both.
The only way to discuss this with someone being emotional is to take the emotion out of the equation for her. Tell her how employable you actually are and that there are greater risks of losing your current position or at least good money by not considering other job opportunities.
If you respond with (something like this) "I'm making x now and will likely end up at most making Y within the next 5 years if I stay where I'm at, add in the cost of life, and we are actually losing money.
If I take a tiny bit of risk today, and find a position that has greater opportunity then we are better off today for the next 5 years, when compared to what I'm making today (x). "
I have but there is more to it than that. You guys have seen some of my questionable posts where I lack understanding and cannot even ask a question correctly. I've also posted about how I feel the need to study a lot (and I am) in order to solidify my knowledge enough to get a better job. I'm not extremely confident I can find something either but not because there are no jobs. Just pure honesty here
Doesn't hurt to apply to jobs. Just because you think you aren't qualified doesn't mean you are unqualified. Even just practicing the interview, if it gets that far, will be worth it.
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@coliver said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@DustinB3403 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Lack of opportunity is the experience.
But she knows that nothing that she has gone through applies to you, right? I think that @DustinB3403 is correct, none of this is applying experience, it's ignoring observation and experience, right?
Yes conceptually she does. That doesn't mean she isn't being influenced heavily by fear. She has this fear because she went through times of extreme poverty herself. So I think it's both.
The only way to discuss this with someone being emotional is to take the emotion out of the equation for her. Tell her how employable you actually are and that there are greater risks of losing your current position or at least good money by not considering other job opportunities.
If you respond with (something like this) "I'm making x now and will likely end up at most making Y within the next 5 years if I stay where I'm at, add in the cost of life, and we are actually losing money.
If I take a tiny bit of risk today, and find a position that has greater opportunity then we are better off today for the next 5 years, when compared to what I'm making today (x). "
I have but there is more to it than that. You guys have seen some of my questionable posts where I lack understanding and cannot even ask a question correctly. I've also posted about how I feel the need to study a lot (and I am) in order to solidify my knowledge enough to get a better job. I'm not extremely confident I can find something either but not because there are no jobs. Just pure honesty here
Doesn't hurt to apply to jobs. Just because you think you aren't qualified doesn't mean you are unqualified. Even just practicing the interview, if it gets that far, will be worth it.
Right and I'm actively applying.
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@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@DustinB3403 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Lack of opportunity is the experience.
But she knows that nothing that she has gone through applies to you, right? I think that @DustinB3403 is correct, none of this is applying experience, it's ignoring observation and experience, right?
Yes conceptually she does. That doesn't mean she isn't being influenced heavily by fear. She has this fear because she went through times of extreme poverty herself. So I think it's both.
The only way to discuss this with someone being emotional is to take the emotion out of the equation for her. Tell her how employable you actually are and that there are greater risks of losing your current position or at least good money by not considering other job opportunities.
If you respond with (something like this) "I'm making x now and will likely end up at most making Y within the next 5 years if I stay where I'm at, add in the cost of life, and we are actually losing money.
If I take a tiny bit of risk today, and find a position that has greater opportunity then we are better off today for the next 5 years, when compared to what I'm making today (x). "
I have but there is more to it than that. You guys have seen some of my questionable posts where I lack understanding and cannot even ask a question correctly. I've also posted about how I feel the need to study a lot (and I am) in order to solidify my knowledge enough to get a better job. I'm not extremely confident I can find something either but not because there are no jobs. Just pure honesty here.
That does not mean you should quit your job and then look for the better one, though. If you want to find a better job, start looking NOW, and then when you survive the interview process and another company makes you an offer that you like, you can take it, and move on up in the world.
Edit: @coliver beat me to it.
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@wirestyle22 if you're using the term better in the conversation it's a scary meaning, because she it totally thinking "well it could be worse, maybe they don't like you and let you go in a short span"
Just explain what is offered from the possible new position versus what you have today and she'll say go for it. And support you for that.
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Also don't be afraid to negotiate. If they make you an offer it will be a low ball. Counter with a high ball and see if they meet you in the middle or accept .
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There is also two other, related, mistakes that I feel are being made that I would never do. Not that they are wrong because I would never do them
I just avoid them because I think that they are "wrong" from a career risk perspective.-
Never quit then look for work. Find work and quit. There is really no excuse for doing it the other way around if you would ever consider remaining at the job. You only quite then look if there is suddenly something so dangerous, unethical or similar that would make you leave for reasons other than money.
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Never go after more money from your current job than they are going to pay you through the regular channels. This effectively never works and results in poisoning the well. Doing this triggers the end of your relationship because you will always feel like they aren't paying you enough and/or they will always feel that you are being overpaid but managed to bully them at a moment of weakness. Either you will remain unhappy, they will be informed that you going to quit and thus they will begin to replace you or they will be unhappy and look to phase you out. or, of course, all three.
Just avoid these two scenarios. If you don't earn enough, leave. it's that simple. Bargaining once you are employed doesn't end well.
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@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@coliver said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@DustinB3403 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Lack of opportunity is the experience.
But she knows that nothing that she has gone through applies to you, right? I think that @DustinB3403 is correct, none of this is applying experience, it's ignoring observation and experience, right?
Yes conceptually she does. That doesn't mean she isn't being influenced heavily by fear. She has this fear because she went through times of extreme poverty herself. So I think it's both.
The only way to discuss this with someone being emotional is to take the emotion out of the equation for her. Tell her how employable you actually are and that there are greater risks of losing your current position or at least good money by not considering other job opportunities.
If you respond with (something like this) "I'm making x now and will likely end up at most making Y within the next 5 years if I stay where I'm at, add in the cost of life, and we are actually losing money.
If I take a tiny bit of risk today, and find a position that has greater opportunity then we are better off today for the next 5 years, when compared to what I'm making today (x). "
I have but there is more to it than that. You guys have seen some of my questionable posts where I lack understanding and cannot even ask a question correctly. I've also posted about how I feel the need to study a lot (and I am) in order to solidify my knowledge enough to get a better job. I'm not extremely confident I can find something either but not because there are no jobs. Just pure honesty here
Doesn't hurt to apply to jobs. Just because you think you aren't qualified doesn't mean you are unqualified. Even just practicing the interview, if it gets that far, will be worth it.
Right and I'm actively applying.
But you are talking about quitting. Why?
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@DustinB3403 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 if you're using the term better in the conversation it's a scary meaning, because she it totally thinking "well it could be worse, maybe they don't like you and let you go in a short span"
Just explain what is offered from the possible new position versus what you have today and she'll say go for it. And support you for that.
I have no issue with her at all. I'm just explaining as questions and statements are being made.
I could write HUGE posts about it but I don't think the majority of you guys would be interested. The short version is I am going insane at my current job. I'm studying every night and applying every day. Everywhere. Every day is like nails on a chalkboard right now for me. I am underpaid, under-appreciated and overworked. I have done my job very well up until this point well beyond even the most unrealistic expectations. My fiance just got a new job where she is making considerably more than me, which is absolutely fantastic for her and for us. After going over the numbers of having a child and providing for said child I feel the need to make considerably more money.
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@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
- Never go after more money from your current job than they are going to pay you through the regular channels...
But this also doesn't mean be afraid to ask for raises. Not every year, but if you have gone 3 or 4 years without even a cost of living raise, then it's time to ask about some sort of raise... but at the same time, you should never give an ultimatum to your employer. Don't tell them you will quit if they don't give you a raise... Just go find another job and put in your two weeks notice after you have a new job secured.
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@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
After going over the numbers of having a child and providing for said child I feel the need to make considerably more money.
But she does not? Child rearing is a HUGE reason why someone, especially the man, has to have enough of an income to support everyone (in case of emergency) in the US where women do not get a year of pay like in the rest of the world when having a baby. It's fine for women to make more than men, of course, but for safety around having kids you want the man to at least earn enough to cover the bases when necessary.
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@dafyre said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
- Never go after more money from your current job than they are going to pay you through the regular channels...
But this also doesn't mean be afraid to ask for raises. Not every year, but if you have gone 3 or 4 years without even a cost of living raise, then it's time to ask about some sort of raise..
Right, but no healthy company makes you ASK for a raise. There needs to be a process. If there isn't, you should have been looking for the next job from day one and no one should expect you to stay, ever.
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@dafyre said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
but at the same time, you should never give an ultimatum to your employer. Don't tell them you will quit if they don't give you a raise... Just go find another job and put in your two weeks notice after you have a new job secured.
Absolutely. the moment that this has crossed your mind, it is time to leave.
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Where are you sending applications out to? Just locally? If that is the case you, like me, are going to have some serious issues finding a competitive job. In IT, and most jobs, you have to prepared to move around.
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@coliver said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Where are you sending applications out to? Just locally? If that is the case you, like me, are going to have some serious issues finding a competitive job. In IT, and most jobs, you have to prepared to move around.
I can't leave my state. My fiance just got her career job with the state and is insanely happy. If I have to choose between her happiness and mine she's going to win. I'm never going to make her give up her own happiness. I will commute or do whatever I have to do to make as much money as possible. Maybe i'll drive an Uber in my spare time. Whatever.
Her happiness is more important to me than mine is.
