So, there was a RC "drone" hovering above my house yesterday...I was kinda pissed.
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@mlnews said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
Taking it down with a boomerang would be pretty cool. Though I'm sure that just because something is on your property doesn't mean you have a right to destroy it (in the UK at least).
In much of the US you can shoot PEOPLE if they are on your property and don't leave. Pretty sure in Texas you can just open fire. Just yell "get off my property" and if the drone doesn't run for it you are free and clear to open fire.
You're talking about the castle doctrine, right?
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The law is currently to ambiguous to dictate trespassing with regards to airspace. So at this point we have to wait for a court case to help define it.
As for nuisance, I don't think this would qualify for nuisance as long as it's within the normal sound ordinances of your town. You're allowed to run a chain saw as a much louder sound during most daylight hours in most places. Most drones aren't anywhere near as loud.
As for the camera, picture taking thing - I think you can legally put up a 50 tall later and take pictures of anything you can see from your own property. So if we take the trespassing part away by making the drone stay over the street in front of or behind your home, they can take all the pictures they want (except in California), and I think the nuisance part would instantly go away as well, again assuming you're following the nuisance ordinances of your location.
As for shooting it down - If, IF it's on your property, Maybe you have some right to destroy other people's property at will, but really, that seems pretty unlikely.
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@Dashrender said:
As for nuisance, I don't think this would qualify for nuisance as long as it's within the normal sound ordinances of your town. You're allowed to run a chain saw as a much louder sound during most daylight hours in most places. Most drones aren't anywhere near as loud.
Running a chainsaw on your own property is not the same as running one on someone else's, though. Quite different things.
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@Dashrender said:
As for the camera, picture taking thing - I think you can legally put up a 50 tall later and take pictures of anything you can see from your own property. So if we take the trespassing part away by making the drone stay over the street in front of or behind your home, they can take all the pictures they want (except in California), and I think the nuisance part would instantly go away as well, again assuming you're following the nuisance ordinances of your location.
Sure, on their own or public property. But there is a difference between taking pictures of you from public space and taking pictures of you by going into your space and just not touching the ground.
Again, think hovercraft or the new Lexus hoverboard.... do they exempt me from trespass laws by keeping my feet off of the ground?
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@Dashrender said:
@mlnews said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
Taking it down with a boomerang would be pretty cool. Though I'm sure that just because something is on your property doesn't mean you have a right to destroy it (in the UK at least).
In much of the US you can shoot PEOPLE if they are on your property and don't leave. Pretty sure in Texas you can just open fire. Just yell "get off my property" and if the drone doesn't run for it you are free and clear to open fire.
You're talking about the castle doctrine, right?
Texas doesn't need castle doctrine, they just let you shoot people.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
As for nuisance, I don't think this would qualify for nuisance as long as it's within the normal sound ordinances of your town. You're allowed to run a chain saw as a much louder sound during most daylight hours in most places. Most drones aren't anywhere near as loud.
Running a chainsaw on your own property is not the same as running one on someone else's, though. Quite different things.
Agreed, that's why this really comes down to what is or isn't trespassing, and little or nothing to do with nuisance law.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
As for the camera, picture taking thing - I think you can legally put up a 50 tall later and take pictures of anything you can see from your own property. So if we take the trespassing part away by making the drone stay over the street in front of or behind your home, they can take all the pictures they want (except in California), and I think the nuisance part would instantly go away as well, again assuming you're following the nuisance ordinances of your location.
Sure, on their own or public property. But there is a difference between taking pictures of you from public space and taking pictures of you by going into your space and just not touching the ground.
Again, think hovercraft or the new Lexus hoverboard.... do they exempt me from trespass laws by keeping my feet off of the ground?
No, and I'm not claiming they do - that is why I specifically mentioned keeping your drone over the street in front of or behind the house you want to surveil.
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Those who are worried about being 'spied' upon are going to have huge issues. Surveillance from public spaces into your private space will be nearly impossible to block, it's unlikely that you'll want to, much less be able to build a 400-500 foot tall fence to prevent the currently considered legal ability to fly a drone in public space at 400-500 feet and take pictures of you.
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Sounds like I'm going to have to start putting some clothes on in my garden then.
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@Dashrender said:
Those who are worried about being 'spied' upon are going to have huge issues. Surveillance from public spaces into your private space will be nearly impossible to block, it's unlikely that you'll want to, much less be able to build a 400-500 foot tall fence to prevent the currently considered legal ability to fly a drone in public space at 400-500 feet and take pictures of you.
Very true and this has always been the case. But you used to be able to do things like have a fence or a roof and block line of sight from whatever you were concerned about. But now even if you have a high fence, a roof over a patio and no line of sight to any public space, a drone can wander your property and even go under a roof and join you.
It's only a difficult to define technicality that would stop a drone from being allowed to enter your house itself! And I'm not sure how one would strictly define which parts it can enter and which it can't given the current laws, other than needing to open a door. But what if a door was left open and it didn't bounce against any walls?
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@Dashrender said:
No, and I'm not claiming they do - that is why I specifically mentioned keeping your drone over the street in front of or behind the house you want to surveil.
That's the big question, though. If a drone can do this and is exempted from trespass based on it being in the "airspace", then the thing that is being used to make that legal catches those other things too.
Basically.... a person leaping onto your property is not trespassing until they touch the ground, is what I am hearing being claimed. If that is the case, what if you shoot someone entering your property and they are over your ground but not on it (yet). What if they leap, they might "have been" trespassing but are not at the moment of the shot. This gets complicated when the airspace is a "safe zone."
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Basically, they're going to have to come up with some new laws to cover drones, aren't they? You can't have strangers legally filming children playing in their own garden - it's not going to happen.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Basically, they're going to have to come up with some new laws to cover drones, aren't they? You can't have strangers legally filming children playing in their own garden - it's not going to happen.
You can in the US. It's very much allowed, sadly.
I think having laws "for drones" is the mistake. If we just had good definition of people owning their own airspace and trespassing in it being trespassing we'd be all set. If the existing laws were sensible and clear instead of murky and confusing I doubt we would need anything further.
All laws about drones are to give them more, not fewer, rights.
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Exactly - so when they make a definite definition of what is your, the landowner's, airspace, say 100-200 feet seems more than reasonable, today, then drones would be trespassing inside that space.
I say 100-200 seems reasonable today because I can see a time when we develop anti-grav or whatever you want to call it and we can create large floating platforms... do you really want a large platform be allowed to hoover 200 ft over your home blocking out all the sun light?
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Basically, they're going to have to come up with some new laws to cover drones, aren't they? You can't have strangers legally filming children playing in their own garden - it's not going to happen.
I can't speak for the UK, but it's happening right now. In the US if there is line of sight to those children from a public space, they most definitely can be legally allowed to be recorded/photographed.
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It's probably the same in the UK. What happens is photographers just get hassled by the police who don't care about, or understand, the law.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
It's probably the same in the UK. What happens is photographers just get hassled by the police who don't care about, or understand, the law.
We have that same problem here.
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@Dashrender said:
@mlnews said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
Taking it down with a boomerang would be pretty cool. Though I'm sure that just because something is on your property doesn't mean you have a right to destroy it (in the UK at least).
In much of the US you can shoot PEOPLE if they are on your property and don't leave. Pretty sure in Texas you can just open fire. Just yell "get off my property" and if the drone doesn't run for it you are free and clear to open fire.
You're talking about the castle doctrine, right?
Can't do that here unless there's immediate threat of harm or death to you (to you only, not your property).
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@Dashrender said:
@mlnews said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
Taking it down with a boomerang would be pretty cool. Though I'm sure that just because something is on your property doesn't mean you have a right to destroy it (in the UK at least).
In much of the US you can shoot PEOPLE if they are on your property and don't leave. Pretty sure in Texas you can just open fire. Just yell "get off my property" and if the drone doesn't run for it you are free and clear to open fire.
You're talking about the castle doctrine, right?
Can't do that here unless there's immediate threat of harm or death to you (to you only, not your property).
I'm guessing that Scott has squirreled away somewhere a list of articles that show Texans just shooting anyone at any time for any reason and then getting off scott free.
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@Dashrender said:
I'm guessing that Scott has squirreled away somewhere a list of articles that show Texans just shooting anyone at any time for any reason and then getting off scott free.
I can probably find an article that says I own the moon.
