Random Thread - Anything Goes
-
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@DustinB3403 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
I'd be more willing to bet that language changes occur because of a centralized / standardized school system.
Not generally, no. That isn't to say it has no impact at all, but children don't spend most of their time in schools and language changes still happen with adults, just accent changes are far more rare.
Only if the centralization or school system are complete. Very few languages have that. Only tiny ones.
It was attempted in the US at one time, a standardised accent which can still be heard as recordings of radio English, by the end of WWII this largely had stopped though because of population boom and teachers being educated faster who were using their own accents.
America still has it, but not for accents (outside of Disney.) The "Webster" system refers to it. Anything with the name Webster or Webster's in it is a reference to the informal US language academy.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Spanish is one of the most standard, but definitely doesn't have a central authority. And the language skews like crazy.
It most certainly does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Spanish_Academy
And it basically works with and regulates the language along with the academies of 22 other Spanish speaking countries. That's why when the digraphs CH, LL, and RR were removed as individual letters within the alphabet a few years ago, all countries went along with it. That'd never happen in an unregulated language like English at all.
-
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Spanish is one of the most standard, but definitely doesn't have a central authority. And the language skews like crazy.
It most certainly does.
As a pretty bad Spanish speaker in the second largest Spanish speaking country, I can tell you, it isn't centralized. The US has an informal Spanish academy too that does things very differently from that one.
-
The point is unregulated languages are vastly worse than regulated ones. English is an example of it when it comes to both grammar and spelling, where you can even have idiotic teachers spit out grammar books in the 50s claiming "no split infinitives" and some people say "of course, that's totally true!"
-
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
The point is unregulated languages are vastly worse than regulated ones. English is an example of it when it comes to both grammar and spelling, where you can even have idiotic teachers spit out grammar books in the 50s claiming "no split infinitives" and some people say "of course, that's totally true!"
But English DOES have an academy, and it caused many of those problems because it was the source of many.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Spanish is one of the most standard, but definitely doesn't have a central authority. And the language skews like crazy.
It most certainly does.
As a pretty bad Spanish speaker in the second largest Spanish speaking country, I can tell you, it isn't centralized. The US has an informal Spanish academy too that does things very differently from that one.
I misread what you said, I thought you said regulatory authority. You're right it isn't totally centralised but certainly at least more consistent than in English. Chile has even gone off the map a few times itself by trying to introduce totally different spellings to clear up usage of C vs Q
-
And, like Spanish, the academy has no authority. Conceptually language academies doesn't really make sense, because they have no authority. So they state what they want a language to be, but have no control over what it is.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
The point is unregulated languages are vastly worse than regulated ones. English is an example of it when it comes to both grammar and spelling, where you can even have idiotic teachers spit out grammar books in the 50s claiming "no split infinitives" and some people say "of course, that's totally true!"
But English DOES have an academy, and it caused many of those problems because it was the source of many.
No it does not. What is it?
-
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
The point is unregulated languages are vastly worse than regulated ones. English is an example of it when it comes to both grammar and spelling, where you can even have idiotic teachers spit out grammar books in the 50s claiming "no split infinitives" and some people say "of course, that's totally true!"
But English DOES have an academy, and it caused many of those problems because it was the source of many.
No it does not.
It does, the US founded one in the 1700s.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
The point is unregulated languages are vastly worse than regulated ones. English is an example of it when it comes to both grammar and spelling, where you can even have idiotic teachers spit out grammar books in the 50s claiming "no split infinitives" and some people say "of course, that's totally true!"
But English DOES have an academy, and it caused many of those problems because it was the source of many.
No it does not.
It does, the US founded one in the 1700s.
Are you talking about American Academy of Language and Belles Lettres? That hasn't been operational since the late 1700s.
-
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
The point is unregulated languages are vastly worse than regulated ones. English is an example of it when it comes to both grammar and spelling, where you can even have idiotic teachers spit out grammar books in the 50s claiming "no split infinitives" and some people say "of course, that's totally true!"
But English DOES have an academy, and it caused many of those problems because it was the source of many.
No it does not. What is it?
Webster's Dictionary is the product of it. It's the official list of American English. It doesn't cover all language aspects, but many.
-
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
The point is unregulated languages are vastly worse than regulated ones. English is an example of it when it comes to both grammar and spelling, where you can even have idiotic teachers spit out grammar books in the 50s claiming "no split infinitives" and some people say "of course, that's totally true!"
But English DOES have an academy, and it caused many of those problems because it was the source of many.
No it does not.
It does, the US founded one in the 1700s.
Are you talking about American Academy of Language and Belles Lettres? That hasn't been operational since the late 1700s.
No, Merriam Webster, as an example, produces current works from it.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
The point is unregulated languages are vastly worse than regulated ones. English is an example of it when it comes to both grammar and spelling, where you can even have idiotic teachers spit out grammar books in the 50s claiming "no split infinitives" and some people say "of course, that's totally true!"
But English DOES have an academy, and it caused many of those problems because it was the source of many.
No it does not.
It does, the US founded one in the 1700s.
Are you talking about American Academy of Language and Belles Lettres? That hasn't been operational since the late 1700s.
No, Merriam Webster, as an example, produces current works from it.
That's a private company though.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
The point is unregulated languages are vastly worse than regulated ones. English is an example of it when it comes to both grammar and spelling, where you can even have idiotic teachers spit out grammar books in the 50s claiming "no split infinitives" and some people say "of course, that's totally true!"
But English DOES have an academy, and it caused many of those problems because it was the source of many.
No it does not. What is it?
Webster's Dictionary is the product of it. It's the official list of American English. It doesn't cover all language aspects, but many.
Actually Noah Webster tried to do a pretty OK job, it was better than Samuel Johnson who tried to make it more complex by introducing false etymologies like turning iland into island.
-
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
The point is unregulated languages are vastly worse than regulated ones. English is an example of it when it comes to both grammar and spelling, where you can even have idiotic teachers spit out grammar books in the 50s claiming "no split infinitives" and some people say "of course, that's totally true!"
But English DOES have an academy, and it caused many of those problems because it was the source of many.
No it does not.
It does, the US founded one in the 1700s.
Are you talking about American Academy of Language and Belles Lettres? That hasn't been operational since the late 1700s.
No, Merriam Webster, as an example, produces current works from it.
That's a private company though.
It is now, but it's touted as being the authority on what is and isn't an actual word of the English language.
Eventually twerking may become a proper word in the English language if it makes it into that book.
-
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
The point is unregulated languages are vastly worse than regulated ones. English is an example of it when it comes to both grammar and spelling, where you can even have idiotic teachers spit out grammar books in the 50s claiming "no split infinitives" and some people say "of course, that's totally true!"
But English DOES have an academy, and it caused many of those problems because it was the source of many.
No it does not.
It does, the US founded one in the 1700s.
Are you talking about American Academy of Language and Belles Lettres? That hasn't been operational since the late 1700s.
No, Merriam Webster, as an example, produces current works from it.
That's a private company though.
That's how the US works
Everything from the government is presented as private companies.
-
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
The point is unregulated languages are vastly worse than regulated ones. English is an example of it when it comes to both grammar and spelling, where you can even have idiotic teachers spit out grammar books in the 50s claiming "no split infinitives" and some people say "of course, that's totally true!"
But English DOES have an academy, and it caused many of those problems because it was the source of many.
No it does not. What is it?
Webster's Dictionary is the product of it. It's the official list of American English. It doesn't cover all language aspects, but many.
Actually Noah Webster tried to do a pretty OK job, it was better than Samuel Johnson who tried to make it more complex by introducing false etymologies like turning iland into island.
Not really, he intentionally skewed the language to create a new standard that was different from the known language at the time. The result is the whole world thinks that Americans can't spell or speak properly.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
And, like Spanish, the academy has no authority. Conceptually language academies doesn't really make sense, because they have no authority. So they state what they want a language to be, but have no control over what it is.
They standardise things, in the same way all of the conflicting dictionaries and house styles do in English, that's the point. I mean sure you can write a book in pre-20th century reforms of German and they won't stop you but there's no point to do it. The French Academy has been trying to fix issues in its spelling for quite some time and introduced some other changes recently
-
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
And, like Spanish, the academy has no authority. Conceptually language academies doesn't really make sense, because they have no authority. So they state what they want a language to be, but have no control over what it is.
They standardise things, in the same way all of the conflicting dictionaries and house styles do in English, that's the point. I mean sure you can write a book in pre-20th century reforms of German and they won't stop you but there's no point to do it. The French Academy has been trying to fix issues in its spelling for quite some time and introduced some other changes recently
Right, except they don't. In the US, the second largest Spanish speaking country, it's not followed, at all. That's like twice the population of Spain!
-
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@tonyshowoff said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
The point is unregulated languages are vastly worse than regulated ones. English is an example of it when it comes to both grammar and spelling, where you can even have idiotic teachers spit out grammar books in the 50s claiming "no split infinitives" and some people say "of course, that's totally true!"
But English DOES have an academy, and it caused many of those problems because it was the source of many.
No it does not. What is it?
Webster's Dictionary is the product of it. It's the official list of American English. It doesn't cover all language aspects, but many.
Actually Noah Webster tried to do a pretty OK job, it was better than Samuel Johnson who tried to make it more complex by introducing false etymologies like turning iland into island.
Not really, he intentionally skewed the language to create a new standard that was different from the known language at the time. The result is the whole world thinks that Americans can't spell or speak properly.
By removing pointless silent letters yes he did. Back then the two languages weren't in the same level of contact they are now outside of port cities. Pre-telegraph as well, there was a case to be made for a national regular spelling and grammar. There was nationalistic reasons behind it, not just linguistic ones. Teddy Roosevelt tried to take it further. And not all of Webster's changes were accepted, and basically all of Teddy's were reversed by act of Congress, hilariously.
