Any Camera People Here?
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@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
@Pete-S said in Any Camera People Here?:
@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
@Pete-S said in Any Camera People Here?:
@Pete-S said in Any Camera People Here?:
@scottalanmiller said in Any Camera People Here?:
Also, lens mounts are a huge weight to add to a camera. Built in lenses weigh a lot less by necessity.
Not really. If you disassembled a camera you'll notice that the lens mount weighs almost nothing.
But build-in-lenses are usually put on smaller sensors and that will make the optics a lot smaller and lighter.
It also used to be that interchangeable where rectilinear and only had small aberrations which required the optical design to use more lens elements and as such become heavier and more expensive, while built-in lenses could take shortcuts and be designed with fewer lens elements but then required image processing in the camera to minimize any flaws in the design. Now that technique is used in interchangeable lenses as well to make for smaller and lighter cameras.
Thanks for the input @Pete-S I greatly appreciate the time spent replying.
I do have an old Pentax SLR camera with 2 lenses, in that I am lucky as I can see and touch the size and weight of the camera.
I think the DSLR is a better fit for me. I find smaller objects harder to hold and struggle more often than not while trying to maintain a grip on the device, there's a non photographic requirement right there.
I don't mind swapping lenses, it's part of the enjoyment of the process I reckon.
My requirements have changed since my initial post, as I have read & learnt more.
I'm now looking for something that is easy to use as a beginner, but something that I won't grow out of too quickly.
I've started looking at the Nikon D5600 & Canon 250D.
Nikon versus Canon is like Ford versus Chevy or Coke versus Pepsi.
I personally think Nikon is easier to use. They also have better sensor technology and have had for quite some time now. So you can shoot in lower light.Picking a camera is difficult.
I would step up to the D7000-series of dSLRs. They are more advanced but actually easier to use because they have more dedicated buttons for functions you need. Also easier to hold and have a top LCD which makes it easier to see your most used settings. It still has an all-automatic point-and-shoot mode, like the lower end cameras (D3000 series and D5000 series).
If budget is any consideration, get a used one. I have friends who could easily afford but never buy new cameras, just older models. Image quality has plateaued and a used D7200 for instance is as good as the newer D7500. It has wifi as well so you can transfer images easily.
PS. Nikon has a huge range of lenses you can use, new and old classic lenses. The D7200 can use almost all of them, actually more than the D7500 can. So you have 40 years of lens production to choose from.
Thanks very much once again @Pete-S . I've learnt more today and am now looking at mirrorless cameras, in particular the Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark III .
I've also learnt about sensor size and am trying to work out if the Micro 4/3rds sensor in the Olympus will be OK for me???
The Olympus has in camera stabilization which is a huge bonus.
Not sure what to do about lenses? I have 2 Sigma lenses off my old Pentax SLR and am trying to find out f I can get an adaptor so I can use them on the Olympus???
As I said all these cameras have better image quality than a smartphone. So yes, you will be satisfied in that respect.
M43 sensor is slightly smaller than the DX sensor in the Nikon/Canon you looked at.
The problem with your old lenses are that they where made for a film camera. With a smaller sensor the effective focal length will be different. Which basically means that when you move the same lenses from your film camera to the M43 camera the image will be zoomed in 2x. Good if you are trying to photograph something far away and want it to look bigger but not so good if you are trying to take family photos as you can't fit as many people into the frame. So your old lenses will not behave the same way as they did on the film camera.
A lot of cameras have image stabilization nowadays. The other big M43 manufacturer is Panasonic. They make very good cameras and have a lot of different models. The closest thing to the OM-D MKIII is probably the Panasonic G80/G85. You should consider that as well.
The M43 lens mount has a short register distance. Which basically means that the distance from the lens to the sensor is very short. It doesn't make much difference in real life except that it means that a lot of lenses from other cameras will mount on the M43 cameras with a simple non-optical adapter.
That's why it easy to mount Pentax lenses, Nikon lenses, Canon lenses etc on the M43 cameras (with the right adapter).
Different M43 lenses from different manufacturers also fit all M3 cameras so you can put a Panasonic lens on an Olympus camera body and vice versa.
My personal opinion as that while the M43 cameras have a lot of functions they don't have all the decades of experience in fine tuning to use of the cameras such as Nikon has. Often some buttons are a bit too small or a bit too far away and it's a little cumbersome getting to some functions which makes them less smooth and slower to use.
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@stacksofplates said in Any Camera People Here?:
@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
@Obsolesce said in Any Camera People Here?:
It comes down to specifically what you require... here's a pretty detailed comparison.
https://www.apotelyt.com/compare-camera/nikon-d3500-vs-sony-a6000
I'm not the camera person, so unfortunately I don't know what all factors went into the decision. But I know she was 100% happy with it.
Thanks @Obsolesce for the info and link, much appreciated. I'm starting to lean towards the Nikon D3500, if for no other reason than it can take alot of photos before it needs a recharge. This is useful as I go away into the bush alot away from mains power.
But this is a huge market, so I won't be surprised if I change my mind.
I have an older D3100 and I really like it. Doesn't have Bluetooth, but they're good cameras. IMO your ability to frame the shot and your lighting are the biggest factors. You can still take really good pictures with a normal meh camera, and really bad pictures with a $6000 camera. My flash diffuser that I built makes a big difference in how pictures look, it's like night and day with it and without it.
Back in the 35mm film days most of the difference between cameras where in how you used them and the speed. With the same lens they produced the same quality. That is true today as well - more or less.
With Nikon the higher end cameras are faster to use, has a more ergonomic layout and can use a larger number of lenses. They often focus faster and in lower light and are more customizable. But the image quality will be more or less the same.
If you are using the camera mostly as a point-and-shoot, it's a waste to buy a more advanced camera than you need. It will just be heavier and more expensive without much of an actual advantage.
If you however are an enthusiast or perhaps even a part-time pro, a little more advanced camera will be worth the money. Personally I think that breaking point is the D7000 series on Nikon. So if you really want to learn how to photograph I suggest D7000 series or higher. Otherwise you will be disappointed and upgrade.
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IMO, typical photo use by most people... phone cameras today are totally sufficient, unless you don't have a modern phone with a good camera. Snapseed is pretty good.
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Had a look at the Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark III yesterday & found it uncomfortable to hold & too small in my hands. Also I couldn't read the viewfinder (although that may be able to be changed bi increasing text size??).
Had a look at a Canon DSLR & Nikon D5600, both were much better to hold. The Nikon was very comfortable.
Also looked at a Canon equivalent to the Olympus. Viewfinder was much easier to read & also better to hold.
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@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
Had a look at the Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark III yesterday & found it uncomfortable to hold & too small in my hands. Also I couldn't read the viewfinder (although that may be able to be changed bi increasing text size??).
Had a look at a Canon DSLR & Nikon D5600, both were much better to hold. The Nikon was very comfortable.
Also looked at a Canon equivalent to the Olympus. Viewfinder was much easier to read & also better to hold.
It might be obvious to you but it's easy to forget to adjust the diopter on the viewfinder. If it's slightly off compared to your vision, you'll have problems reading the viewfinder text and symbols.
Then the viewfinder differs in magnification between cameras. Something like 0.7x is considered good (in 35mm equivalent).
And also in eyepoint, which is the maximum distance from the eye to the viewfinder where you still can see the entire viewfinder. It's important for eyeglass wearers especially. Something around 20mm is considered good, that's about 3/4".
With an electric viewfinder you also have the resolution and refresh rate to consider and for optical viewfinders it's the design of the focusing screen and it's brightness.
PS. This is the specs for the
Nikon D5600
Viewfinder Magnification: 0.82x (Approx.)
Viewfinder Eyepoint: 17 mm (-1.0 m¯¹)Olympus OM-D MKIII
Viewfinder Magnification: Approx.1.23x (=0.60x in 35mm equiv.)
Eye Point: Approx. 19.2mmSo Olympus camera has a slightly better eyepoint but a significantly smaller viewfinder.
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@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
Had a look at the Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark III yesterday & found it uncomfortable to hold & too small in my hands. Also I couldn't read the viewfinder (although that may be able to be changed bi increasing text size??).
Had a look at a Canon DSLR & Nikon D5600, both were much better to hold. The Nikon was very comfortable.
Also looked at a Canon equivalent to the Olympus. Viewfinder was much easier to read & also better to hold.
It's good that you checked them out in real life.
Be weary of what lenses will fit the cameras though. It's nice when lenses have a much longer lifespan than the camera body.
Even if you decide to sell you camera down the line it's often the lenses that will be valuable long after the camera. Especially if you have bought expensive lenses.Nikon and Canon dSLRs are good in this regard but their mirrorless versions not so much.
So if you are picking between two cameras that feels equally good, consider what lenses they use and if those have been around and are popular.
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I have a Nikon D3500 that I bought in 2009ish, but I mostly use it in point and shoot mode.
Back in the early 90's I was really looking into photography before I fell into IT. But I even let it fall away as a hobby.
I like the Nikon over the Canon simply because I like the feel of them, better to hold.
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@JaredBusch said in Any Camera People Here?:
I like the Nikon over the Canon simply because I like the feel of them, better to hold.
I started off as a Canon guy in the 1980s, switch to Nikon around 1992 when I went pro. Both are great, but I've just always preferred the Nikon. I use a D90 now and it remains just fantastic. Totally replacing with another Nikon when the time comes as my primary workhorse.
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Traditionally, like 1960-1980s, Canon was favoured by scenic photographers, and Nikon by journalists.
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Agreed here on Nikon comments. We have a D5300, I mostly use it in point and shoot mode, too. My wife dabbles with the other settings. I have briefly used some friends lower end Canon DSLRs and the Nikon was a better fit for me.
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I just remembered that another option when buying cameras and lenses is to rent them for a few days or a week.
If you like it, you know what to buy. If you don't like it for whatever reason, well you haven't bought it yet.
Maybe you'll find out that you don't really want an advanced camera and are satisfied with the phone. In that case you just payed to be able to play with expensive toys for a week.lensrentals.com for instance and others have gear they will ship to you. Midrange dslr will be something like $50 for a week. You have to pick a lens too.
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@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
I'm looking for a camera and I know nothing.
I'm happy with the quality of the photos I get out of my Samsung Galaxy S6+ but I'd like to have, is it called a viewfinder? The thing you used to have to jam your eye up against with all the cameras we used to use before we used smartphones.
Also something with bluetooth, a screen so I can review what I just shot, maybe wifi, SD card. Also the ability to add filters, just like I do on my smartphone.
Manual focus and the ability to add lenses may be good as well.
Budget is up to $500.
With thanks.
There are plenty of good third party lenses that can attach to smart phones. I've been wanting to pick-up a good Macro and Zoom lens set for my iPhone X as I can't be bothered to carry around extra kit with me where ever I go.
^^^ This was taken with my iPhone using the native lens and built-in software. The built-in camera app sucks so purchasing an app that allows for full control is on the To Do List as well.As a comparison, nothing has come close to the Lumia 1020 that my wife now has for photo capabilities. That was one awesome camera that had a smartphone attached to it. :S
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Thanks for all the info people.
There's so much to look into. Had a look at a Canon EOS 50M the other day, nice camera, nice to hold, not bad price wise.
The search continues.
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@Pete-S said in Any Camera People Here?:
@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
Had a look at the Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark III yesterday & found it uncomfortable to hold & too small in my hands. Also I couldn't read the viewfinder (although that may be able to be changed bi increasing text size??).
Had a look at a Canon DSLR & Nikon D5600, both were much better to hold. The Nikon was very comfortable.
Also looked at a Canon equivalent to the Olympus. Viewfinder was much easier to read & also better to hold.
It might be obvious to you but it's easy to forget to adjust the diopter on the viewfinder. If it's slightly off compared to your vision, you'll have problems reading the viewfinder text and symbols.
Then the viewfinder differs in magnification between cameras. Something like 0.7x is considered good (in 35mm equivalent).
And also in eyepoint, which is the maximum distance from the eye to the viewfinder where you still can see the entire viewfinder. It's important for eyeglass wearers especially. Something around 20mm is considered good, that's about 3/4".
With an electric viewfinder you also have the resolution and refresh rate to consider and for optical viewfinders it's the design of the focusing screen and it's brightness.
PS. This is the specs for the
Nikon D5600
Viewfinder Magnification: 0.82x (Approx.)
Viewfinder Eyepoint: 17 mm (-1.0 m¯¹)Olympus OM-D MKIII
Viewfinder Magnification: Approx.1.23x (=0.60x in 35mm equiv.)
Eye Point: Approx. 19.2mmSo Olympus camera has a slightly better eyepoint but a significantly smaller viewfinder.
Yes, the person in the shop pointed out to me about the diopter, I didn't even know about it, so I'm sure the Olympus Viewfinder would be fine.
I did find out that the Olympus has a Micro 4/3rds sensor and the Canon 50M an APS-C sensor and since landscapes are going to be a popular choice for images, the larger sensor would be helpful. I also will be doing low light work, so again the larger sensor will be helpful.
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@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
Yes, the person in the shop pointed out to me about the diopter, I didn't even know about it, so I'm sure the Olympus Viewfinder would be fine.
Also worth noting, if you are nearsighted like me, mirrorless is a "look near" system as the LCD is right in front of you, and an SLR is "look far" as you are actually looking at the object off in the distance.
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@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
I did find out that the Olympus has a Micro 4/3rds sensor and the Canon 50M an APS-C sensor and since landscapes are going to be a popular choice for images, the larger sensor would be helpful.
I'm confused. What does sensor size have to do with this? Sensor size itself means absolutely nothing. Sensor size is an underlying, indirect (under the hood) factor that determines lens design, cost, quality, etc. But has nothing to do with type of photography, etc. Bigger sensors need bigger lenses to do the same work, so require way more weight and cost in glass to do the same things. So unless you have an unlimited budget, bigger sensors work against you as they make the things that matter harder to do, and only change the things that don't matter.
It is by making the sensors super small that phones are able to compete.
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If anything, the larger the sensor, the harder to get glass to handle landscapes. Smaller sensors make everything easier, all other things being equal.
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I can only go by what I've read which said that a larger sensor will let in more light which is helpful in low light situations.
Also I read that a the smaller the sensor the more zoomed in an image appears. From what I understood, and if I can paraphrase, If looking at a face a larger sensor will see the eyes, cheeks & chin, but a smaller sensor will only see the nose, hence the image is zoomed in if you like.
If I understand that correctly, a larger sensor would be better for landscape shots.
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@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
I can only go by what I've read which said that a larger sensor will let in more light which is helpful in low light situations.
That's true, but essentially useless info. This is one of those "out of context" pieces that sounds informational, but actually misleads you. you see, the sensor has more surface area to let in more light, but that's never been the primary issue with low light sensitivity. The main problems are glass and aperture. Both of which get worse when the sensor gets bigger. So bigger sensor normally causes low light problems, rather than fixing them.
This is like where they say "If you want ZFS to manage disk alerts, you need to skip hardware RAID" and people think it means you need to skip hardware RAID, but really it means that you don't normally want ZFS to manage the alerts.
This is why looking at "under the hood components" without looking at the full system is misleading. The information you have is true, but you don't have the full picture to see how it is likely to apply to the end result. You are reading out "means" and not looking at the "ends."
This is why many phones with itty bitty sensors have better low light handling than some expensive "big sensor" cameras - because they are able to achieve huge apertures with lots of glass affordably.
What matters for low light photography is your resulting F stop (aperture) combined with the ISO rating of the sensor. That's it. How those numbers are achieved can be from many factors, factors that might be interesting, but not factors you can look at in isolation to figure out how well the system will work.
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@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
Also I read that a the smaller the sensor the more zoomed in an image appears. From what I understood, and if I can paraphrase, If looking at a face a larger sensor will see the eyes, cheeks & chin, but a smaller sensor will only see the nose, hence the image is zoomed in if you like.
If I understand that correctly, a larger sensor would be better for landscape shots.None of this is correct. All kinds of concepts are being mixed together here and attributed to the wrong components of the system. What you are reading is someone talking about problems that would arise if you put a different sized sensor into a camera built for a different sensor size. Of course it's going to be all screwed up because the lenses will be adjusted all wrong. But don't take "the camera will be broken" to lead to advice about how to build a camera.
Think of this in IT terms. Imagine if you want to build a server, and you only read about CPUs. You start ignoring drives, RAM, operating systems, etc. and start looking at CPUs in a vacuum. Pretty soon you read that ARM CPUs are more efficient, or Power CPUs are faster and you build a system with a $1000 CPU, no RAM, a slow hard drive, and expect to install Windows 10 and then find out that the obsession with the CPU was pointless as only AMD64 CPUs will work with Windows, and you glossed over the important components that make the most difference.
It's great to want to learn about how cameras are designed and built, and in doing so you can understand them better. But in order to understand the components, you have to understand the entire camera, and then learn about the sensor, lens, aperture, ISO sensitivity, sensor speed, mirrors, and other components in the context of how they go into building a complete system that works as a whole. Unless you are going to do that, you cannot look at an individual component and make these kinds of observations or your conclusions are going to be, at best, random, and at worst, backwards.
There is a reason why big sensors are most popular with portraiture and small ones most popular with landscape; but we should never discuss sensors in a vacuum like that because that knowledge on its own will never do us any good.
