KVM or VMWare
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XCP-ng and XE cli and XenOrchestra and XCPngCenter use the well known XEN API known as "XAPI".
Start a task using the XE command line and it shows up in the other task lists such as that in XenOrchestra.
Start a vm move from XCPNGcenter and it shows up under
xe task-list.Start a vm copy command from XenOrchestra and it will show up under
xe task-list.We use one set of tools to manage both old Citrix 6.5 hosts and the latest XCP-ng hosts.
Not sure how that compares to ProxMox/KVM. Do not know on the status of a real KVM API, but as a long time bash user, I would consider bash an API.
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@rjt said in KVM or VMWare:
XCP-ng and XE cli and XenOrchestra and XCPngCenter use the well known XEN API known as "XAPI".
Start a task using the XE command line and it shows up in the other task lists such as that in XenOrchestra.
Start a vm move from XCPNGcenter and it shows up under
xe task-list.Start a vm copy command from XenOrchestra and it will show up under
xe task-list.We use one set of tools to manage both old Citrix 6.5 hosts and the latest XCP-ng hosts.
Not sure how that compares to ProxMox/KVM. Do not know on the status of a real KVM API, but as a long time bash user, I would consider bash an API.
Bash is not an API, it's a shell. You don't really interact with the KVM APIs directly, it's libvirt which you usually interact with because KVM is very low level. Libvirt has real APIs but like I mentioned above, they don't do a lot of what you would want. Commands like
xe vm-listare similar to things likevirsh list --alland are done through libvirt. KVM can be leveraged without libvirt/qemu (see things like gvisor and firecracker), however libvirt is normally what you get out of the box.Cloning is a good immediate example. Cloning is done through a tool like
virt-clonewhich is a subset of tooling from virt-manager (source here https://github.com/virt-manager/virt-manager/blob/master/virtinst/virtclone.py) . So if you were to try to create a REST API to interact with libvirt to clone a system you'd essentially need something like a CGI script to kick off the clone process. It's very kludgy. I did a lot of this automation through Ansible, but it took a lot of work and was somewhat limited. -
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
I was Indeed Meaning Hyper-V Server, not the Hyper-V role.
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@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
I was Indeed Meaning Hyper-V Server, not the Hyper-V role.
I am wondering if MS expects businesses to be all cloud in the next ten years? Those that are not, they don't care about.
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I'm not really surprised by this, but remember people still use dedicated servers. I have one in a data center using proxmox. Microsoft won't be bothered about these though as they want people using their data centers anyway.
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@pmoncho said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
I was Indeed Meaning Hyper-V Server, not the Hyper-V role.
I am wondering if MS expects businesses to be all cloud in the next ten years? Those that are not, they don't care about.
Is indeed what they want I believe, especially with Windows 365. They already had a method of creating RDS solutions in Azure. They have just made it easier to do with Windows 365.
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@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@pmoncho said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
I was Indeed Meaning Hyper-V Server, not the Hyper-V role.
I am wondering if MS expects businesses to be all cloud in the next ten years? Those that are not, they don't care about.
Is indeed what they want I believe, especially with Windows 365. They already had a method of creating RDS solutions in Azure. They have just made it easier to do with Windows 365.
Shit, many companies thought this 20 years ago...
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@dashrender said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@pmoncho said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
I was Indeed Meaning Hyper-V Server, not the Hyper-V role.
I am wondering if MS expects businesses to be all cloud in the next ten years? Those that are not, they don't care about.
Is indeed what they want I believe, especially with Windows 365. They already had a method of creating RDS solutions in Azure. They have just made it easier to do with Windows 365.
Shit, many companies thought this 20 years ago...
Yep, And that old machine that has loads of memory and still a decent processor but don't meet the requirements, well Windows 365 now supports Windows 11 Funny Enough.
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Doesn't bother me though, I'm a fully converted Linux User now. have been the last couple of years. I personally like my workflow in linux now.
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Why would I throw away a machine just for the sake of Windows 11 which a lot of people will because they always want the latest and greatest so they say.
All this why we are meant to be saving the planet really, all this scrap computer parts that will be in your local tip.
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@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@pmoncho said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
I was Indeed Meaning Hyper-V Server, not the Hyper-V role.
I am wondering if MS expects businesses to be all cloud in the next ten years? Those that are not, they don't care about.
Is indeed what they want I believe, especially with Windows 365. They already had a method of creating RDS solutions in Azure. They have just made it easier to do with Windows 365.
I was going through the costs with their old RDS server solution they had about 5 years ago until they ditched it. It would have actually more cost effective for us.
Their new solution raised costs by about 40% so I said HELL no.
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@dashrender said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@pmoncho said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
I was Indeed Meaning Hyper-V Server, not the Hyper-V role.
I am wondering if MS expects businesses to be all cloud in the next ten years? Those that are not, they don't care about.
Is indeed what they want I believe, especially with Windows 365. They already had a method of creating RDS solutions in Azure. They have just made it easier to do with Windows 365.
Shit, many companies thought this 20 years ago...
I agree. Although most businesses, including us, did not have the ability to get higher Internet speeds as we do today. We were stuck with high priced multiple T1's until 6 years ago.
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@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
Why would I throw away a machine just for the sake of Windows 11 which a lot of people will because they always want the latest and greatest so they say.
All this why we are meant to be saving the planet really, all this scrap computer parts that will be in your local tip.
Microsoft gives zero shits about what you do with your old hardware... whether you upgrade to W11, keep W10, or throw Linux on instead, they make next to nothing. They aren't forcing you to do anything with it, and do not care.
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@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
Why would I throw away a machine just for the sake of Windows 11 which a lot of people will because they always want the latest and greatest so they say.
All this why we are meant to be saving the planet really, all this scrap computer parts that will be in your local tip.
Microsoft gives zero shits about what you do with your old hardware... whether you upgrade to W11, keep W10, or throw Linux on instead, they make next to nothing. They aren't forcing you to do anything with it, and do not care.
But you have to admit this is very likely a ploy to get people to buy new hardware they might not really need. Sure it offers a tiny bit of extra protection, but the reality is that most of those people are so completely insecure in the way they operate that the extra security they gain with the new hardware is basically pointless.
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@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
Why would I throw away a machine just for the sake of Windows 11 which a lot of people will because they always want the latest and greatest so they say.
All this why we are meant to be saving the planet really, all this scrap computer parts that will be in your local tip.
Microsoft gives zero shits about what you do with your old hardware... whether you upgrade to W11, keep W10, or throw Linux on instead, they make next to nothing. They aren't forcing you to do anything with it, and do not care.
They really don't want you putting LInux on it and avoiding having an all Windows system or seeing that Linux is easier and less costly to support. They depend on people not knowing about it.
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@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
Why would I throw away a machine just for the sake of Windows 11 which a lot of people will because they always want the latest and greatest so they say.
All this why we are meant to be saving the planet really, all this scrap computer parts that will be in your local tip.
Microsoft gives zero shits about what you do with your old hardware... whether you upgrade to W11, keep W10, or throw Linux on instead, they make next to nothing. They aren't forcing you to do anything with it, and do not care.
They really don't want you putting LInux on it and avoiding having an all Windows system or seeing that Linux is easier and less costly to support. They depend on people not knowing about it.
Agree 100%
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@WLS-ITGuy I haven’t been in this forum for years, and after years I still see similar questions and the same arguing…
The answer is simple, stick with VMware for anything business related. The other arguments are really mental masturbation.
Yes, VMware licensing is worth it and vSphere us not going away. The KVM ecosystem is for builders, not for sysadmin.Do yourself a favor and learn something useful like Terraform to automate VMware or similar stuff, the real deal today is not wasting your time reinventing the wheel and doing manual operations, not saving a few bucks on hypervisor’s license.
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@francesco-provino said in KVM or VMWare:
@WLS-ITGuy I haven’t been in this forum for years, and after years I still see similar questions and the same arguing…
Do yourself a favor and learn something useful like Terraform to automate VMware or similar stuff, the real deal today is not wasting your time reinventing the wheel and doing manual operations, not saving a few bucks on hypervisor’s license.
I agree here. Many on here don't understand the benefits of IaC and proper SDLC because they haven't been exposed to it yet. Penny wise and pound foolish.
Granted many of these one man shops don't have the resources (IT employees) to do it. If you're fixing printers you don't have the bandwidth to do this kind of stuff. Either way there is still pain in the long run for not doing automation, but for them it's just not feasible.
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@irj said in KVM or VMWare:
@francesco-provino said in KVM or VMWare:
@WLS-ITGuy I haven’t been in this forum for years, and after years I still see similar questions and the same arguing…
Do yourself a favor and learn something useful like Terraform to automate VMware or similar stuff, the real deal today is not wasting your time reinventing the wheel and doing manual operations, not saving a few bucks on hypervisor’s license.
I agree here. Many on here don't understand the benefits of IaC and proper SDLC because they haven't been exposed to it yet. Penny wise and pound foolish.
Granted many of these one man shops don't have the resources (IT employees) to do it. If you're fixing printers you don't have the bandwidth to do this kind of stuff. Either way there is still pain in the long run for not doing automation, but for them it's just not feasible.
I'm all in favor of automation.
What I question is why you NEED VMWare to automate things? I've done it with XenServer/XCP-NG, and I don't see why anyone couldn't also automate KVM based things as well.
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@travisdh1 said in KVM or VMWare:
@irj said in KVM or VMWare:
@francesco-provino said in KVM or VMWare:
@WLS-ITGuy I haven’t been in this forum for years, and after years I still see similar questions and the same arguing…
Do yourself a favor and learn something useful like Terraform to automate VMware or similar stuff, the real deal today is not wasting your time reinventing the wheel and doing manual operations, not saving a few bucks on hypervisor’s license.
I agree here. Many on here don't understand the benefits of IaC and proper SDLC because they haven't been exposed to it yet. Penny wise and pound foolish.
Granted many of these one man shops don't have the resources (IT employees) to do it. If you're fixing printers you don't have the bandwidth to do this kind of stuff. Either way there is still pain in the long run for not doing automation, but for them it's just not feasible.
I'm all in favor of automation.
What I question is why you NEED VMWare to automate things? I've done it with XenServer/XCP-NG, and I don't see why anyone couldn't also automate KVM based things as well.
Can you give examples of this automation? I have a feeling the terms aren't exactly the same here.
