KVM or VMWare
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@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
Let's talk about why Microsoft are not releasing Hyper-V Server no more. I should imagine they were eventually going to kill it, but they have done it quite quickly then imagined.
Because they want you to use Azure Stack HCI instead.
Not instead, in addition to. Azure Stack HCI is built on Hyper-V and a number of other technologies. ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
But this is like saying that they want you to buy Datacenter instead of a desktop version of Windows. Both are Windows, one is really expensive, one is really cheap. Sure they "want" you to pay for the expensive one. But that doesn't imply that they would make the crazy move of not still promoting and providing the free one.
Virtualization isn't a game where you can risk not having a free version. VMware owns the entire space of "paid only" and their options are super cheap. Azure Stack HCI has no cheap option whatsoever. This is a premium product. Maybe worth it, maybe not, but not something cheap. Loads of companies could never consider it because it is just too costly for much of the SMB. With servers typically being 16+ cores, that makes ASHCI $160/mo just for the integration of components. That adds up super fast for an SMB, so it's not for everyone.
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@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
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@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
So basically, correct me if I am wrong, one has to pay to use Hyper-V going forward in the future (After Hyper-V Server 2019 is EOL)?
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@pmoncho said in KVM or VMWare:
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
So basically, correct me if I am wrong, one has to pay to use Hyper-V going forward in the future (After Hyper-V Server 2019 is EOL)?
Depends on the use case, but yes. I haven't looked much into it because I don't use "Hyper-V" anymore outside of my Windows Desktop and Laptop.
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@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
All of this @scottalanmiller. To my knowledge, no one in this thread said Hyper-V was going away.
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@jaredbusch XCP-ng and XenOrchestra are both supported very well. Just today, someone using the latest version of VirtualBox had problems with importing a VirtualBox.OVA into XCP-ng using XenOrchestra. A dev looked at the problem and posted patches to github very same day. Unlike other vendors, you are dealing directly with developers as opposed to a call center "I do not want to be here. I just want to close this ticket" hourly employee.
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XCP-ng and XE cli and XenOrchestra and XCPngCenter use the well known XEN API known as "XAPI".
Start a task using the XE command line and it shows up in the other task lists such as that in XenOrchestra.
Start a vm move from XCPNGcenter and it shows up under
xe task-list.Start a vm copy command from XenOrchestra and it will show up under
xe task-list.We use one set of tools to manage both old Citrix 6.5 hosts and the latest XCP-ng hosts.
Not sure how that compares to ProxMox/KVM. Do not know on the status of a real KVM API, but as a long time bash user, I would consider bash an API.
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@rjt said in KVM or VMWare:
XCP-ng and XE cli and XenOrchestra and XCPngCenter use the well known XEN API known as "XAPI".
Start a task using the XE command line and it shows up in the other task lists such as that in XenOrchestra.
Start a vm move from XCPNGcenter and it shows up under
xe task-list.Start a vm copy command from XenOrchestra and it will show up under
xe task-list.We use one set of tools to manage both old Citrix 6.5 hosts and the latest XCP-ng hosts.
Not sure how that compares to ProxMox/KVM. Do not know on the status of a real KVM API, but as a long time bash user, I would consider bash an API.
Bash is not an API, it's a shell. You don't really interact with the KVM APIs directly, it's libvirt which you usually interact with because KVM is very low level. Libvirt has real APIs but like I mentioned above, they don't do a lot of what you would want. Commands like
xe vm-listare similar to things likevirsh list --alland are done through libvirt. KVM can be leveraged without libvirt/qemu (see things like gvisor and firecracker), however libvirt is normally what you get out of the box.Cloning is a good immediate example. Cloning is done through a tool like
virt-clonewhich is a subset of tooling from virt-manager (source here https://github.com/virt-manager/virt-manager/blob/master/virtinst/virtclone.py) . So if you were to try to create a REST API to interact with libvirt to clone a system you'd essentially need something like a CGI script to kick off the clone process. It's very kludgy. I did a lot of this automation through Ansible, but it took a lot of work and was somewhat limited. -
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
I was Indeed Meaning Hyper-V Server, not the Hyper-V role.
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@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
I was Indeed Meaning Hyper-V Server, not the Hyper-V role.
I am wondering if MS expects businesses to be all cloud in the next ten years? Those that are not, they don't care about.
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I'm not really surprised by this, but remember people still use dedicated servers. I have one in a data center using proxmox. Microsoft won't be bothered about these though as they want people using their data centers anyway.
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@pmoncho said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
I was Indeed Meaning Hyper-V Server, not the Hyper-V role.
I am wondering if MS expects businesses to be all cloud in the next ten years? Those that are not, they don't care about.
Is indeed what they want I believe, especially with Windows 365. They already had a method of creating RDS solutions in Azure. They have just made it easier to do with Windows 365.
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@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@pmoncho said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
I was Indeed Meaning Hyper-V Server, not the Hyper-V role.
I am wondering if MS expects businesses to be all cloud in the next ten years? Those that are not, they don't care about.
Is indeed what they want I believe, especially with Windows 365. They already had a method of creating RDS solutions in Azure. They have just made it easier to do with Windows 365.
Shit, many companies thought this 20 years ago...
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@dashrender said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@pmoncho said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
I was Indeed Meaning Hyper-V Server, not the Hyper-V role.
I am wondering if MS expects businesses to be all cloud in the next ten years? Those that are not, they don't care about.
Is indeed what they want I believe, especially with Windows 365. They already had a method of creating RDS solutions in Azure. They have just made it easier to do with Windows 365.
Shit, many companies thought this 20 years ago...
Yep, And that old machine that has loads of memory and still a decent processor but don't meet the requirements, well Windows 365 now supports Windows 11 Funny Enough.
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Doesn't bother me though, I'm a fully converted Linux User now. have been the last couple of years. I personally like my workflow in linux now.
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Why would I throw away a machine just for the sake of Windows 11 which a lot of people will because they always want the latest and greatest so they say.
All this why we are meant to be saving the planet really, all this scrap computer parts that will be in your local tip.
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@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@pmoncho said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
I was Indeed Meaning Hyper-V Server, not the Hyper-V role.
I am wondering if MS expects businesses to be all cloud in the next ten years? Those that are not, they don't care about.
Is indeed what they want I believe, especially with Windows 365. They already had a method of creating RDS solutions in Azure. They have just made it easier to do with Windows 365.
I was going through the costs with their old RDS server solution they had about 5 years ago until they ditched it. It would have actually more cost effective for us.
Their new solution raised costs by about 40% so I said HELL no.
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@dashrender said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@pmoncho said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
I was Indeed Meaning Hyper-V Server, not the Hyper-V role.
I am wondering if MS expects businesses to be all cloud in the next ten years? Those that are not, they don't care about.
Is indeed what they want I believe, especially with Windows 365. They already had a method of creating RDS solutions in Azure. They have just made it easier to do with Windows 365.
Shit, many companies thought this 20 years ago...
I agree. Although most businesses, including us, did not have the ability to get higher Internet speeds as we do today. We were stuck with high priced multiple T1's until 6 years ago.
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@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
Why would I throw away a machine just for the sake of Windows 11 which a lot of people will because they always want the latest and greatest so they say.
All this why we are meant to be saving the planet really, all this scrap computer parts that will be in your local tip.
Microsoft gives zero shits about what you do with your old hardware... whether you upgrade to W11, keep W10, or throw Linux on instead, they make next to nothing. They aren't forcing you to do anything with it, and do not care.
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@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
Why would I throw away a machine just for the sake of Windows 11 which a lot of people will because they always want the latest and greatest so they say.
All this why we are meant to be saving the planet really, all this scrap computer parts that will be in your local tip.
Microsoft gives zero shits about what you do with your old hardware... whether you upgrade to W11, keep W10, or throw Linux on instead, they make next to nothing. They aren't forcing you to do anything with it, and do not care.
But you have to admit this is very likely a ploy to get people to buy new hardware they might not really need. Sure it offers a tiny bit of extra protection, but the reality is that most of those people are so completely insecure in the way they operate that the extra security they gain with the new hardware is basically pointless.
