KVM or VMWare
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Doesn't bother me though, I'm a fully converted Linux User now. have been the last couple of years. I personally like my workflow in linux now.
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Why would I throw away a machine just for the sake of Windows 11 which a lot of people will because they always want the latest and greatest so they say.
All this why we are meant to be saving the planet really, all this scrap computer parts that will be in your local tip.
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@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@pmoncho said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
I was Indeed Meaning Hyper-V Server, not the Hyper-V role.
I am wondering if MS expects businesses to be all cloud in the next ten years? Those that are not, they don't care about.
Is indeed what they want I believe, especially with Windows 365. They already had a method of creating RDS solutions in Azure. They have just made it easier to do with Windows 365.
I was going through the costs with their old RDS server solution they had about 5 years ago until they ditched it. It would have actually more cost effective for us.
Their new solution raised costs by about 40% so I said HELL no.
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@dashrender said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@pmoncho said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
Not instead, in addition to.
If Hyper-V Server as a single product is going away, then it can't be "in addition to". He said Hyper-V Server, not Hyper-V.
@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
ASHCI is MS doubling down on Hyper-V, not abandoning it.
Right, not what I was referring to. He said, "Hyper-V Server". We all know that Hyper-V is not going away.
I was Indeed Meaning Hyper-V Server, not the Hyper-V role.
I am wondering if MS expects businesses to be all cloud in the next ten years? Those that are not, they don't care about.
Is indeed what they want I believe, especially with Windows 365. They already had a method of creating RDS solutions in Azure. They have just made it easier to do with Windows 365.
Shit, many companies thought this 20 years ago...
I agree. Although most businesses, including us, did not have the ability to get higher Internet speeds as we do today. We were stuck with high priced multiple T1's until 6 years ago.
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@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
Why would I throw away a machine just for the sake of Windows 11 which a lot of people will because they always want the latest and greatest so they say.
All this why we are meant to be saving the planet really, all this scrap computer parts that will be in your local tip.
Microsoft gives zero shits about what you do with your old hardware... whether you upgrade to W11, keep W10, or throw Linux on instead, they make next to nothing. They aren't forcing you to do anything with it, and do not care.
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@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
Why would I throw away a machine just for the sake of Windows 11 which a lot of people will because they always want the latest and greatest so they say.
All this why we are meant to be saving the planet really, all this scrap computer parts that will be in your local tip.
Microsoft gives zero shits about what you do with your old hardware... whether you upgrade to W11, keep W10, or throw Linux on instead, they make next to nothing. They aren't forcing you to do anything with it, and do not care.
But you have to admit this is very likely a ploy to get people to buy new hardware they might not really need. Sure it offers a tiny bit of extra protection, but the reality is that most of those people are so completely insecure in the way they operate that the extra security they gain with the new hardware is basically pointless.
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@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
Why would I throw away a machine just for the sake of Windows 11 which a lot of people will because they always want the latest and greatest so they say.
All this why we are meant to be saving the planet really, all this scrap computer parts that will be in your local tip.
Microsoft gives zero shits about what you do with your old hardware... whether you upgrade to W11, keep W10, or throw Linux on instead, they make next to nothing. They aren't forcing you to do anything with it, and do not care.
They really don't want you putting LInux on it and avoiding having an all Windows system or seeing that Linux is easier and less costly to support. They depend on people not knowing about it.
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@scottalanmiller said in KVM or VMWare:
@obsolesce said in KVM or VMWare:
@stuartjordan said in KVM or VMWare:
Why would I throw away a machine just for the sake of Windows 11 which a lot of people will because they always want the latest and greatest so they say.
All this why we are meant to be saving the planet really, all this scrap computer parts that will be in your local tip.
Microsoft gives zero shits about what you do with your old hardware... whether you upgrade to W11, keep W10, or throw Linux on instead, they make next to nothing. They aren't forcing you to do anything with it, and do not care.
They really don't want you putting LInux on it and avoiding having an all Windows system or seeing that Linux is easier and less costly to support. They depend on people not knowing about it.
Agree 100%
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@WLS-ITGuy I haven’t been in this forum for years, and after years I still see similar questions and the same arguing…
The answer is simple, stick with VMware for anything business related. The other arguments are really mental masturbation.
Yes, VMware licensing is worth it and vSphere us not going away. The KVM ecosystem is for builders, not for sysadmin.Do yourself a favor and learn something useful like Terraform to automate VMware or similar stuff, the real deal today is not wasting your time reinventing the wheel and doing manual operations, not saving a few bucks on hypervisor’s license.
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@francesco-provino said in KVM or VMWare:
@WLS-ITGuy I haven’t been in this forum for years, and after years I still see similar questions and the same arguing…
Do yourself a favor and learn something useful like Terraform to automate VMware or similar stuff, the real deal today is not wasting your time reinventing the wheel and doing manual operations, not saving a few bucks on hypervisor’s license.
I agree here. Many on here don't understand the benefits of IaC and proper SDLC because they haven't been exposed to it yet. Penny wise and pound foolish.
Granted many of these one man shops don't have the resources (IT employees) to do it. If you're fixing printers you don't have the bandwidth to do this kind of stuff. Either way there is still pain in the long run for not doing automation, but for them it's just not feasible.
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@irj said in KVM or VMWare:
@francesco-provino said in KVM or VMWare:
@WLS-ITGuy I haven’t been in this forum for years, and after years I still see similar questions and the same arguing…
Do yourself a favor and learn something useful like Terraform to automate VMware or similar stuff, the real deal today is not wasting your time reinventing the wheel and doing manual operations, not saving a few bucks on hypervisor’s license.
I agree here. Many on here don't understand the benefits of IaC and proper SDLC because they haven't been exposed to it yet. Penny wise and pound foolish.
Granted many of these one man shops don't have the resources (IT employees) to do it. If you're fixing printers you don't have the bandwidth to do this kind of stuff. Either way there is still pain in the long run for not doing automation, but for them it's just not feasible.
I'm all in favor of automation.
What I question is why you NEED VMWare to automate things? I've done it with XenServer/XCP-NG, and I don't see why anyone couldn't also automate KVM based things as well.
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@travisdh1 said in KVM or VMWare:
@irj said in KVM or VMWare:
@francesco-provino said in KVM or VMWare:
@WLS-ITGuy I haven’t been in this forum for years, and after years I still see similar questions and the same arguing…
Do yourself a favor and learn something useful like Terraform to automate VMware or similar stuff, the real deal today is not wasting your time reinventing the wheel and doing manual operations, not saving a few bucks on hypervisor’s license.
I agree here. Many on here don't understand the benefits of IaC and proper SDLC because they haven't been exposed to it yet. Penny wise and pound foolish.
Granted many of these one man shops don't have the resources (IT employees) to do it. If you're fixing printers you don't have the bandwidth to do this kind of stuff. Either way there is still pain in the long run for not doing automation, but for them it's just not feasible.
I'm all in favor of automation.
What I question is why you NEED VMWare to automate things? I've done it with XenServer/XCP-NG, and I don't see why anyone couldn't also automate KVM based things as well.
Can you give examples of this automation? I have a feeling the terms aren't exactly the same here.
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@stacksofplates said in KVM or VMWare:
@travisdh1 said in KVM or VMWare:
@irj said in KVM or VMWare:
@francesco-provino said in KVM or VMWare:
@WLS-ITGuy I haven’t been in this forum for years, and after years I still see similar questions and the same arguing…
Do yourself a favor and learn something useful like Terraform to automate VMware or similar stuff, the real deal today is not wasting your time reinventing the wheel and doing manual operations, not saving a few bucks on hypervisor’s license.
I agree here. Many on here don't understand the benefits of IaC and proper SDLC because they haven't been exposed to it yet. Penny wise and pound foolish.
Granted many of these one man shops don't have the resources (IT employees) to do it. If you're fixing printers you don't have the bandwidth to do this kind of stuff. Either way there is still pain in the long run for not doing automation, but for them it's just not feasible.
I'm all in favor of automation.
What I question is why you NEED VMWare to automate things? I've done it with XenServer/XCP-NG, and I don't see why anyone couldn't also automate KVM based things as well.
Can you give examples of this automation? I have a feeling the terms aren't exactly the same here.
What I'm thinking of in this case is using Ansible to provision and build and manage VMs and/or the host server.
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@travisdh1 said in KVM or VMWare:
@stacksofplates said in KVM or VMWare:
@travisdh1 said in KVM or VMWare:
@irj said in KVM or VMWare:
@francesco-provino said in KVM or VMWare:
@WLS-ITGuy I haven’t been in this forum for years, and after years I still see similar questions and the same arguing…
Do yourself a favor and learn something useful like Terraform to automate VMware or similar stuff, the real deal today is not wasting your time reinventing the wheel and doing manual operations, not saving a few bucks on hypervisor’s license.
I agree here. Many on here don't understand the benefits of IaC and proper SDLC because they haven't been exposed to it yet. Penny wise and pound foolish.
Granted many of these one man shops don't have the resources (IT employees) to do it. If you're fixing printers you don't have the bandwidth to do this kind of stuff. Either way there is still pain in the long run for not doing automation, but for them it's just not feasible.
I'm all in favor of automation.
What I question is why you NEED VMWare to automate things? I've done it with XenServer/XCP-NG, and I don't see why anyone couldn't also automate KVM based things as well.
Can you give examples of this automation? I have a feeling the terms aren't exactly the same here.
What I'm thinking of in this case is using Ansible to provision and build and manage VMs and/or the host server.
I’ve been working with this in my home lab, and the virt module seems pretty limited in what it can do. For making a new VM, I’m basically creating and executing a script that runs virt-install to make the VM, which is similar to what the Fedora Project does for VM creation.
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@travisdh1 said in KVM or VMWare:
@stacksofplates said in KVM or VMWare:
@travisdh1 said in KVM or VMWare:
@irj said in KVM or VMWare:
@francesco-provino said in KVM or VMWare:
@WLS-ITGuy I haven’t been in this forum for years, and after years I still see similar questions and the same arguing…
Do yourself a favor and learn something useful like Terraform to automate VMware or similar stuff, the real deal today is not wasting your time reinventing the wheel and doing manual operations, not saving a few bucks on hypervisor’s license.
I agree here. Many on here don't understand the benefits of IaC and proper SDLC because they haven't been exposed to it yet. Penny wise and pound foolish.
Granted many of these one man shops don't have the resources (IT employees) to do it. If you're fixing printers you don't have the bandwidth to do this kind of stuff. Either way there is still pain in the long run for not doing automation, but for them it's just not feasible.
I'm all in favor of automation.
What I question is why you NEED VMWare to automate things? I've done it with XenServer/XCP-NG, and I don't see why anyone couldn't also automate KVM based things as well.
Can you give examples of this automation? I have a feeling the terms aren't exactly the same here.
What I'm thinking of in this case is using Ansible to provision and build and manage VMs and/or the host server.
Yeah. That's what I assumed. It's reliant on many disparate cli tools that aren't necessarily related.
There's a terraform libvirt provider but using a centralized place for images doesn't work because it copies the image through the machine running terraform because of libvirt limitations.
If you don't use virt-clone you're heavily limited to either using the domain xml and manually copying the images or wiring up another cli tool like virt-builder.
It's a mess. VMware has its idiosyncrasies but it is light-years ahead in automation.
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@eddiejennings said in KVM or VMWare:
@travisdh1 said in KVM or VMWare:
@stacksofplates said in KVM or VMWare:
@travisdh1 said in KVM or VMWare:
@irj said in KVM or VMWare:
@francesco-provino said in KVM or VMWare:
@WLS-ITGuy I haven’t been in this forum for years, and after years I still see similar questions and the same arguing…
Do yourself a favor and learn something useful like Terraform to automate VMware or similar stuff, the real deal today is not wasting your time reinventing the wheel and doing manual operations, not saving a few bucks on hypervisor’s license.
I agree here. Many on here don't understand the benefits of IaC and proper SDLC because they haven't been exposed to it yet. Penny wise and pound foolish.
Granted many of these one man shops don't have the resources (IT employees) to do it. If you're fixing printers you don't have the bandwidth to do this kind of stuff. Either way there is still pain in the long run for not doing automation, but for them it's just not feasible.
I'm all in favor of automation.
What I question is why you NEED VMWare to automate things? I've done it with XenServer/XCP-NG, and I don't see why anyone couldn't also automate KVM based things as well.
Can you give examples of this automation? I have a feeling the terms aren't exactly the same here.
What I'm thinking of in this case is using Ansible to provision and build and manage VMs and/or the host server.
I’ve been working with this in my home lab, and the virt module seems pretty limited in what it can do. For making a new VM, I’m basically creating and executing a script that runs virt-install to make the VM, which is similar to what the Fedora Project does for VM creation.
You can use virt-clone if you don't want to run full virt-install.
But you need to set the template up first through something.
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@stacksofplates said in KVM or VMWare:
@eddiejennings said in KVM or VMWare:
@travisdh1 said in KVM or VMWare:
@stacksofplates said in KVM or VMWare:
@travisdh1 said in KVM or VMWare:
@irj said in KVM or VMWare:
@francesco-provino said in KVM or VMWare:
@WLS-ITGuy I haven’t been in this forum for years, and after years I still see similar questions and the same arguing…
Do yourself a favor and learn something useful like Terraform to automate VMware or similar stuff, the real deal today is not wasting your time reinventing the wheel and doing manual operations, not saving a few bucks on hypervisor’s license.
I agree here. Many on here don't understand the benefits of IaC and proper SDLC because they haven't been exposed to it yet. Penny wise and pound foolish.
Granted many of these one man shops don't have the resources (IT employees) to do it. If you're fixing printers you don't have the bandwidth to do this kind of stuff. Either way there is still pain in the long run for not doing automation, but for them it's just not feasible.
I'm all in favor of automation.
What I question is why you NEED VMWare to automate things? I've done it with XenServer/XCP-NG, and I don't see why anyone couldn't also automate KVM based things as well.
Can you give examples of this automation? I have a feeling the terms aren't exactly the same here.
What I'm thinking of in this case is using Ansible to provision and build and manage VMs and/or the host server.
I’ve been working with this in my home lab, and the virt module seems pretty limited in what it can do. For making a new VM, I’m basically creating and executing a script that runs virt-install to make the VM, which is similar to what the Fedora Project does for VM creation.
You can use virt-clone if you don't want to run full virt-install.
But you need to set the template up first through something.
Yeah. virt-clone is the next step. For my own learning, I wanted to see how I would deploy one from scratch first.
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@stacksofplates said in KVM or VMWare:
@travisdh1 said in KVM or VMWare:
@stacksofplates said in KVM or VMWare:
@travisdh1 said in KVM or VMWare:
@irj said in KVM or VMWare:
@francesco-provino said in KVM or VMWare:
@WLS-ITGuy I haven’t been in this forum for years, and after years I still see similar questions and the same arguing…
Do yourself a favor and learn something useful like Terraform to automate VMware or similar stuff, the real deal today is not wasting your time reinventing the wheel and doing manual operations, not saving a few bucks on hypervisor’s license.
I agree here. Many on here don't understand the benefits of IaC and proper SDLC because they haven't been exposed to it yet. Penny wise and pound foolish.
Granted many of these one man shops don't have the resources (IT employees) to do it. If you're fixing printers you don't have the bandwidth to do this kind of stuff. Either way there is still pain in the long run for not doing automation, but for them it's just not feasible.
I'm all in favor of automation.
What I question is why you NEED VMWare to automate things? I've done it with XenServer/XCP-NG, and I don't see why anyone couldn't also automate KVM based things as well.
Can you give examples of this automation? I have a feeling the terms aren't exactly the same here.
What I'm thinking of in this case is using Ansible to provision and build and manage VMs and/or the host server.
Yeah. That's what I assumed. It's reliant on many disparate cli tools that aren't necessarily related.
There's a terraform libvirt provider but using a centralized place for images doesn't work because it copies the image through the machine running terraform because of libvirt limitations.
If you don't use virt-clone you're heavily limited to either using the domain xml and manually copying the images or wiring up another cli tool like virt-builder.
It's a mess. VMware has its idiosyncrasies but it is light-years ahead in automation.
It isn't the ability to automate that is the problem. It's the availablility of easy to use tools that is the problem.
Big tech companies will build their own tooling. Those tools end up in the public domain. And then everyone can use them without having to allocate the resources to build it themselves.
You could of course do the same if you have the time and inclination.
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@eddiejennings said in KVM or VMWare:
@travisdh1 said in KVM or VMWare:
@stacksofplates said in KVM or VMWare:
@travisdh1 said in KVM or VMWare:
@irj said in KVM or VMWare:
@francesco-provino said in KVM or VMWare:
@WLS-ITGuy I haven’t been in this forum for years, and after years I still see similar questions and the same arguing…
Do yourself a favor and learn something useful like Terraform to automate VMware or similar stuff, the real deal today is not wasting your time reinventing the wheel and doing manual operations, not saving a few bucks on hypervisor’s license.
I agree here. Many on here don't understand the benefits of IaC and proper SDLC because they haven't been exposed to it yet. Penny wise and pound foolish.
Granted many of these one man shops don't have the resources (IT employees) to do it. If you're fixing printers you don't have the bandwidth to do this kind of stuff. Either way there is still pain in the long run for not doing automation, but for them it's just not feasible.
I'm all in favor of automation.
What I question is why you NEED VMWare to automate things? I've done it with XenServer/XCP-NG, and I don't see why anyone couldn't also automate KVM based things as well.
Can you give examples of this automation? I have a feeling the terms aren't exactly the same here.
What I'm thinking of in this case is using Ansible to provision and build and manage VMs and/or the host server.
I’ve been working with this in my home lab, and the virt module seems pretty limited in what it can do. For making a new VM, I’m basically creating and executing a script that runs virt-install to make the VM, which is similar to what the Fedora Project does for VM creation.
This is an example I've used before for XenServer/XCP-NG. https://jrisch.medium.com/using-ansible-to-automate-vm-creation-on-xenserver-d092aa484a06
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@pete-s said in KVM or VMWare:
It isn't the ability to automate that is the problem. It's the availablility of easy to use tools that is the problem.
Thats the whole point I'm making.
KVM is hard to automate. Not that it's impossible, but the tooling doesn't exist to where you can easily automate like with VMware.
