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    Which Nas OS?

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    • K
      krisleslie @JaredBusch
      last edited by

      That I can't lie it's pretty simple. Once it's setup. It takes just one evening. If the guys that made TurnKey Linux would change their FileServer to use one of the modern interfaces, I honestly wouldn't need to go anywhere.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • scottalanmillerS
        scottalanmiller @krisleslie
        last edited by

        @krisleslie said in Which Nas OS?:

        I guess on one hand 10 years later I still see SAM's logic, you are introducing risk and potentially a single point of failure.

        That's not what I was talking about. A Synology is a NAS, not an NAS OS. It's NAS OS that I warn against because it's conceptually a bad idea. NASs themselves are fine.

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        • scottalanmillerS
          scottalanmiller @JaredBusch
          last edited by

          @JaredBusch said in Which Nas OS?:

          @krisleslie not going to second guess hat you recommended, but on the point of this thread, I do like the simplicity of the Synology NAS for clients. because I know it is easier to hand off to someone else.

          Yup, we use real Synology (hardware appliances) all the time. Easy to price, easy to acquire, easy to support, and easy to hand off. They are great.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • dave247D
            dave247 @Dashrender
            last edited by dave247

            @Dashrender said in Which Nas OS?:

            I could have sworn that @scottalanmiller has been against at least FreeNAS - just use a Linux OS and manage the shares. What value does FreeNAS/ReadyNAS, etc add on top of Fedora/Ubuntu/CentOS, etc?

            I haven't actually used FreeNAS yet but from what I can tell it has a nice GUI aimed at using the system as a NAS, similar to something like Synology with its DiskStation Manager. I feel like if you use something like FreeBSD then its going to be more manual management with no easy way to do what you want to do - unless you're really good with Linux.

            JaredBuschJ scottalanmillerS 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • JaredBuschJ
              JaredBusch @dave247
              last edited by

              @dave247 said in Which Nas OS?:

              @Dashrender said in Which Nas OS?:

              I could have sworn that @scottalanmiller has been against at least FreeNAS - just use a Linux OS and manage the shares. What value does FreeNAS/ReadyNAS, etc add on top of Fedora/Ubuntu/CentOS, etc?

              I haven't actually used FreeNAS yet but from what I can tell it has a nice GUI aimed at using the system as a NAS, similar to something like Synology. I feel like if you use something like FreeBSD then its going to be more manual management with no easy to manage interface so you can do what you want to do - unless you're really good with Linux.

              The point is you never run a NAS OS on your own gear. You run a NAS OS only on the NAS vendor’s stack.

              Anything else is over complicating the job and introducing huge failure domains.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
              • scottalanmillerS
                scottalanmiller @dave247
                last edited by

                @dave247 said in Which Nas OS?:

                @Dashrender said in Which Nas OS?:

                I could have sworn that @scottalanmiller has been against at least FreeNAS - just use a Linux OS and manage the shares. What value does FreeNAS/ReadyNAS, etc add on top of Fedora/Ubuntu/CentOS, etc?

                I haven't actually used FreeNAS yet but from what I can tell it has a nice GUI aimed at using the system as a NAS, similar to something like Synology with its DiskStation Manager. I feel like if you use something like FreeBSD then its going to be more manual management with no easy way to do what you want to do - unless you're really good with Linux.

                EXCEPT, it doesn't provide that nice GUI when it matters, only when it doesn't. In order to use FreeNAS you have to know even more BSD than if you'd not used FreeNAS and used BSD directly.

                Everything that makes it "feel" like it is easy to use, actually does the opposite. It's LESS easy to use, requires more skill and more knowledge and is harder to get support than regular BSD, which has a fraction of the knowledge and support out there as Linux.

                So think orders of magnitude worse.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • scottalanmillerS
                  scottalanmiller @dave247
                  last edited by

                  @dave247 said in Which Nas OS?:

                  I feel like if you use something like FreeBSD then its going to be more manual management with no easy way to do what you want to do

                  That's the false marketing that they want you to think. They prey on people getting sucked in to the pretty pictures and seeing the easy tasks that don't need a GUI having a GUI and hoping that they will ignore that the hard tasks where you'd actually hope that the GUI will save you, don't have a GUI. Plus it takes something really simple and makes it more complex, and more prone to failure (FreeBSD is famous for CAUSING dataloss!) Storage is not a place to be set up to need extra skills, nor a place for instability.

                  jmooreJ K 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • jmooreJ
                    jmoore @scottalanmiller
                    last edited by

                    @scottalanmiller said in Which Nas OS?:

                    @dave247 said in Which Nas OS?:

                    I feel like if you use something like FreeBSD then its going to be more manual management with no easy way to do what you want to do

                    That's the false marketing that they want you to think. They prey on people getting sucked in to the pretty pictures and seeing the easy tasks that don't need a GUI having a GUI and hoping that they will ignore that the hard tasks where you'd actually hope that the GUI will save you, don't have a GUI. Plus it takes something really simple and makes it more complex, and more prone to failure (FreeBSD is famous for CAUSING dataloss!) Storage is not a place to be set up to need extra skills, nor a place for instability.

                    Yeah to me the easiest things to work with are the tools that give me the most flexibility and options.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • jmooreJ
                      jmoore @scottalanmiller
                      last edited by

                      @scottalanmiller So that usually means a cli or just a full OS. BSD is nice to use and does its job well. Wish I could find a solid Solaris fork that was still being developed.

                      scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • K
                        krisleslie @scottalanmiller
                        last edited by

                        @scottalanmiller Hey Scotty! Yes, I know you meant the NAS OS (that we can install) vs Vendor + Hardware/Software/Support Stack. Gotcha we on same page!

                        I honestly wish Synology would make a Linux distro 🙂 their stuff is sexy can't lie. But I think what I was referring to is really the "niche" market of people doing Synology OS (the open-source version) that is basically the same thing as loading FreeNAS. I haven't done it but was thinking of tinkering with it at home for sh*ts & giggles. Same with FreeNAS. But at work I started off with Synology, and honestly after all the learning and listening from you Scott over the years, it's like I kinda don't even need Synology I would rather just have another server with a proper virtualization stack. The only thing I'm missing out on is really the remote backup features from XCP-NG. I would probably like to send a feature request for them to maybe consider using like Amazon or Azure as a backup point. But I recall MSP360 can do the heavy lifting.

                        scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • scottalanmillerS
                          scottalanmiller @jmoore
                          last edited by

                          @jmoore said in Which Nas OS?:

                          Wish I could find a solid Solaris fork that was still being developed.

                          I mean, Illumos has been idle for seven hours now.

                          jmooreJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • scottalanmillerS
                            scottalanmiller @krisleslie
                            last edited by

                            @krisleslie said in Which Nas OS?:

                            But I think what I was referring to is really the "niche" market of people doing Synology OS (the open-source version) that is basically the same thing as loading FreeNAS.

                            They'd fall into the same boat. A system that depends on support, whose function is support, layered onto something else. Synology is a great product. Remove the support and it's a nice looking, but worthless GUI layer.

                            K 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • jmooreJ
                              jmoore @scottalanmiller
                              last edited by

                              @scottalanmiller said in Which Nas OS?:

                              @jmoore said in Which Nas OS?:

                              Wish I could find a solid Solaris fork that was still being developed.

                              I mean, Illumos has been idle for seven hours now.

                              Ok I am going to try it with OmniOS.

                              scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • scottalanmillerS
                                scottalanmiller @jmoore
                                last edited by

                                @jmoore said in Which Nas OS?:

                                @scottalanmiller said in Which Nas OS?:

                                @jmoore said in Which Nas OS?:

                                Wish I could find a solid Solaris fork that was still being developed.

                                I mean, Illumos has been idle for seven hours now.

                                Ok I am going to try it with OmniOS.

                                But they've been idle THREE DAYS, lol 😉

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • scottalanmillerS
                                  scottalanmiller @krisleslie
                                  last edited by

                                  @krisleslie said in Which Nas OS?:

                                  The only thing I'm missing out on is really the remote backup features from XCP-NG.

                                  Proxmox has backups built in, too.

                                  black3dynamiteB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • black3dynamiteB
                                    black3dynamite @scottalanmiller
                                    last edited by

                                    @scottalanmiller said in Which Nas OS?:

                                    @krisleslie said in Which Nas OS?:

                                    The only thing I'm missing out on is really the remote backup features from XCP-NG.

                                    Proxmox has backups built in, too.

                                    Although its only full backups.

                                    scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • scottalanmillerS
                                      scottalanmiller @black3dynamite
                                      last edited by

                                      @black3dynamite said in Which Nas OS?:

                                      @scottalanmiller said in Which Nas OS?:

                                      @krisleslie said in Which Nas OS?:

                                      The only thing I'm missing out on is really the remote backup features from XCP-NG.

                                      Proxmox has backups built in, too.

                                      Although its only full backups.

                                      True. But add compression and dedupe and it's only so bad.

                                      black3dynamiteB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • black3dynamiteB
                                        black3dynamite @scottalanmiller
                                        last edited by

                                        @scottalanmiller said in Which Nas OS?:

                                        @black3dynamite said in Which Nas OS?:

                                        @scottalanmiller said in Which Nas OS?:

                                        @krisleslie said in Which Nas OS?:

                                        The only thing I'm missing out on is really the remote backup features from XCP-NG.

                                        Proxmox has backups built in, too.

                                        Although its only full backups.

                                        True. But add compression and dedupe and it's only so bad.

                                        So far I'm only using the backup for small containers and VMs.

                                        K 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • K
                                          krisleslie @scottalanmiller
                                          last edited by

                                          @scottalanmiller you are 100% correct I would be back in the same issue. I actually can say I lived that life. When my nas went through a phase it wasn't supported and didn't get updates, their support sent me to the wolves. I eventually got it to work after 1-2 years after they pushed a firmware update unexpectedly. That left me feeling like yea, I would rather just deal with a server, vm and storage from Window. If something breaks, to some degree I can just spin up another vm and continue working. I don't have a 2nd Synology nas so that in itself is a point of failure.

                                          scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • K
                                            krisleslie @black3dynamite
                                            last edited by krisleslie

                                            @black3dynamite yea I'm more intune with wanting to have the ability to push it to Amazon or Azure or some other cloud vendor. Have to tip my hat, Synology does it out the box.

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