The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss
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@DustinB3403 said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
You're paid to do as they tell you, not to question them.
That depends on who your boss is. They are paying you for your expertise. Anyone can make a request. It's our job to interpret their needs and to do it in the best way possible. Sometimes there are considerations a non-technical user won't think about. That requires you to ask questions and help them understand how they can achieve what they actually want to do.
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@wirestyle22 said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
@DustinB3403 said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
You're paid to do as they tell you, not to question them.
That depends on who your boss is. They are paying you for your expertise. Anyone can make a request. It's our job to interpret their needs and to do it in the best way possible. Sometimes there are considerations a non-technical user won't think about. That requires you to ask questions and help them understand how they can achieve what they actually want to do.
No, you are misinterpreting what you are there to do. Being in IT or any other field has nothing to do with what you are expressly told to do.
If my boss came to me and said Dustin, I need you to open this document and edit it because we are short staffed. Use photoshop or whatever.
It's a legal request, you do it. You don't have to be qualified, understand the reasoning or anything else. You're given a responsibility to do it, so you do it.
The example I provided above about jumping in place is the same example. You're being paid for your time, how you are asked to fill that time doesn't matter - so long as it's a legal request.
Otherwise you're fired because you're not following through with your responsibilities.
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When you are asked to do something vague like "make sure this works", then you can do nothing besides the most basic approach.
When there are alternative approaches (like using a web browser to join a skype meeting) it's on your boss/vendor to offer those solutions. Not on you to fix their ineptitude.
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@DustinB3403 So you're boss says give access to our file server to all users. It has very sensitive data on it. You just do it?
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@wirestyle22 said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
@DustinB3403 So you're boss says give access to our file server to all users. It has very sensitive data on it. You just do it?
It's not my responsibility to quantify the reasoning for the request, it's a legal one and they are the person responsible. Would I get a CYA for a request like that, absolutely. Would said CYA matter in anything but a court of law, no.
Your boss is giving an express legal action to perform, so you do it. You aren't legal council for the company, you aren't being paid to question the boss. You're there to do as told unless otherwise not expressly being told to "fix Y".
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@scottalanmiller said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
At which point, when do we listen and when do we ignore?
You don't ignore, but IMO you inform/educate them of your expert opinion, then after, you do as told.
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@Obsolesce said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
@scottalanmiller said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
At which point, when do we listen and when do we ignore?
You don't, but IMO you inform/educate them of your expert opinion, then after, you do as told.
Exactly, you can say "Boss, giving everyone access to the server is a bad idea. We can go about this other ways if you'd like that would result in what you likely need, can we meet and discuss?"
If they say, "no, do as I said." you've done your job to offer a reasonable solution, so do as they said and open up the server.
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@DustinB3403 said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
@Obsolesce said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
@scottalanmiller said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
At which point, when do we listen and when do we ignore?
You don't, but IMO you inform/educate them of your expert opinion, then after, you do as told.
Exactly, you can say "Boss, giving everyone access to the server is a bad idea. We can go about this other ways if you'd like that would result in what you likely need, can we meet and discuss?"
If they say, "no, do as I said." you've done your job to offer a reasonable solution, so do as they said and open up the server.
I think that would be interpreted as questioning of the reasoning behind the action. If I discuss it with them and they still decide it then yeah, I'm going to do it. I'm also going to document everything including e-mails etc to cover myself as I always do.
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@DustinB3403 said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
You're paid to do as they tell you, not to question them.
This statement was the one I disagreed with
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@wirestyle22 said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
@DustinB3403 said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
You're paid to do as they tell you, not to question them.
This statement was the one I disagreed with
yep, some definite talking out both sides of your mouth on that one.
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@Dashrender said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
@wirestyle22 said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
@DustinB3403 said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
You're paid to do as they tell you, not to question them.
This statement was the one I disagreed with
yep, some definite talking out both sides of your mouth on that one.
No, because @DustinB3403 is alsways talking out of his ass.
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@JaredBusch said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
@Dashrender said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
@wirestyle22 said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
@DustinB3403 said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
You're paid to do as they tell you, not to question them.
This statement was the one I disagreed with
yep, some definite talking out both sides of your mouth on that one.
No, because @DustinB3403 is alsways talking out of his ass.
There are two choices when it comes to the job, do it, or quit. If you boss tells you to install Cisco switching are you going to install Ubiquity because you feel they are so much better?
No, you're going to install Cisco because it's the order your boss gave you and you need the job. Anyone who disagrees with doing as your told because it's a legal thing to be told to do and who is not in the chain of command can suck my balls.
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@DustinB3403 said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
@JaredBusch said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
@Dashrender said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
@wirestyle22 said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
@DustinB3403 said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
You're paid to do as they tell you, not to question them.
This statement was the one I disagreed with
yep, some definite talking out both sides of your mouth on that one.
No, because @DustinB3403 is alsways talking out of his ass.
There are two choices when it comes to the job, do it, or quit. If you boss tells you to install Cisco switching are you going to install Ubiquity because you feel they are so much better?
No, you're going to install Cisco because it's the order your boss gave you and you need the job. Anyone who disagrees with doing as your told because it's a legal thing to be told to do and who is not in the chain of command can suck my balls.
yet you offered me a third - cause I'm special I guess - of telling my boss she was stupid..
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@Dashrender said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
you offered me a third - cause I'm special I guess - of telling my boss she was stupid
Well, she is.
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@dafyre said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
@Dashrender said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
... the point being that the boss demands X, you do X, and then something bad happens and you get blamed for it.
This is why I will never blindly do something. I'm sorry, I don't care if you're the janitor, or the Master of the Multiverse, I'm not doing to do something just because the boss says to do it -- Especially if it is something that will come back and bite ME for doing what my boss said to do.
Now that's not to say I won't do it. But I'm going to talk with the boss about it, get more details and have a conversation with him about why his request is a good or a bad idea, or why I don't understand why he wants it done in a particular way.
Once I understand what the boss wants, and/or have my CMA's (Cover My Ass) in writing and documented, then I'll do it, even if it is still something I don't agree with doing.
I have a brain, I'm going to use it.
You are an easy one to deal with. You're fired.
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I know I'm a little late on this, but why are most of you discussing business relationships like "do ti or you're fired". I worked in 4 companies so far, and I never experienced that.
I always assume that I am paid to do what is best for my boss/company. Very often, that means to explain to my boss that I believe we have better solution than what he asks/suggests as solution.
I don't remember I have ever had problems with my approach. -
@Mario-Jakovina said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
I always assume that I am paid to do what is best for my boss/company. Very often, that means to explain to my boss that I believe we have better solution than what he asks/suggests as solution.
I don't remember I have ever had problems with my approach.In theory that's why someone hires someone in IT. But the average company does not do that and does not expect IT to actually provide guidance. Bigger companies, yes. But having worked in many countries, it's not just in the US. In fact, some places like Italy it is far worse... the owners or business managers absolutely demand control of IT decisions and IT is just there to look pretty or something.
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@scottalanmiller said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
@Mario-Jakovina said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
I always assume that I am paid to do what is best for my boss/company. Very often, that means to explain to my boss that I believe we have better solution than what he asks/suggests as solution.
I had this type of relationship with my previous boss before she died. It was a great IT/Business relationship. It had worked well for many many years and I was thanked for it most of the time.
In fact, some places like Italy it is far worse... the owners or business managers absolutely demand control of IT decisions and IT is just there to look pretty or something.
With the two people who took over after my boss died, I am in a situation similar to this but not to this extreme (yet?) as I am still asked my opinion, whatever that is worth.
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@pmoncho
Yeah - that's where I find myself. I get asked for suggestions, then looked at strangely for wanting to spend money. -
@scottalanmiller said in The Fundamental Flaw in Not Listening to the Boss:
But the average company does not do that and does not expect IT to actually provide guidance. Bigger companies, yes.
OK, but most average companies do not last long
the owners or business managers absolutely demand control of IT decisions and IT is just there to look pretty or something.
I think it's not problem who makes decisions - the real question is does management listen to their staff or expect them to "do what they're told to do".
Good management always listen to their subordinates.
