Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement
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@IRJ said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@scottalanmiller said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@IRJ said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
The whole point of Essentials is to run Essentials (aka essential services). Like it should be dedicated to AD, DNS, DHCP.
That's not its purpose. If those were the only pieces needed, Windows itself makes no sense. It's most fundamental purpose is to run LOB apps that are Windows only.
Essentials makes no sense. Why not just offer Windows standard if that were the case.
Essentials makes total sense. Because it costs less.
You have to provide a financial benefit for spending the extra money on Standard. Without one, you can't say that it makes sense.
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@DustinB3403 said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@IRJ said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
20 users is $100 a month. Less than paying an IT person for one hour of work.
But it's $100 a month with no support or training or guidance.
It's a here is a service, hope you know what you're doing.
Where as plopping a share onto a users desktop or favorites and everything gets saved to "the share" on a LAN is a lot easier.
Right, more work for IT to maintain, more work for the users to use. I like that style of solution, but OneDrive is a costly and complex one.
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@scottalanmiller said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@IRJ said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@DustinB3403 said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@IRJ said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@DustinB3403 said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@IRJ said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@Dashrender said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@IRJ said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
The whole point of Essentials is to run Essentials (aka essential services). Like it should be dedicated to AD, DNS, DHCP.
This was kinda my point - though I consider print and file as part of that as well.
Right and I'd do printer in a small environment, but I dont know if there is ever a reason to do a file server on your DC
Well the reason is because "it costs so much" to purchase Windows Server X again and licensing for just that service. It's why so many businesses did it.
One Drive is a no brainer IMO if you have under $25 users
Monthly cost though would be a big burden on a tiny business. I do get the value though.
20 users is $100 a month. Less than paying an IT person for one hour of work.
Yeah, but you still have to pay the IT people for as much or more set up and maintenance as using a normal SMB share. And you still have to manage backups, which are way more complex than with a legacy server.
So while it is not a massive expense in absolute terms, it is generally a tremendous amount for a small office with only a few workers who might spend only around $200 a year for the traditional system, but would be spending more like $1400+ for OneDrive.
That's a lot of money for a tiny business.
$1200 a year at a minimum assuming that setup was free. (Owner Bob does the work)
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@DustinB3403 said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@scottalanmiller said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@IRJ said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@DustinB3403 said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@IRJ said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@DustinB3403 said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@IRJ said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@Dashrender said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@IRJ said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
The whole point of Essentials is to run Essentials (aka essential services). Like it should be dedicated to AD, DNS, DHCP.
This was kinda my point - though I consider print and file as part of that as well.
Right and I'd do printer in a small environment, but I dont know if there is ever a reason to do a file server on your DC
Well the reason is because "it costs so much" to purchase Windows Server X again and licensing for just that service. It's why so many businesses did it.
One Drive is a no brainer IMO if you have under $25 users
Monthly cost though would be a big burden on a tiny business. I do get the value though.
20 users is $100 a month. Less than paying an IT person for one hour of work.
Yeah, but you still have to pay the IT people for as much or more set up and maintenance as using a normal SMB share. And you still have to manage backups, which are way more complex than with a legacy server.
So while it is not a massive expense in absolute terms, it is generally a tremendous amount for a small office with only a few workers who might spend only around $200 a year for the traditional system, but would be spending more like $1400+ for OneDrive.
That's a lot of money for a tiny business.
$1200 a year at a minimum assuming that setup was free. (Owner Bob does the work)
Right, I'm assuming at least $100 of IT time for setup and $100 for setting up backups because they have to be different and separate from the LOB app backups that are already being paid for.
If you do the "legacy" SMB shares then you already will have a backup mechanism in place that will catch that for zero additional costs (assumed, but SO likely and definitely in the use case discussed.)
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Also, in environments like the one being discussed, OneDrive doesn't work well because it is often the same user at all workstations. OD doesn't handle that well. And no, it doesn't save money, you are forced to license it per user regardless if you use the authentication or not.
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@scottalanmiller said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@IRJ said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@scottalanmiller said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@IRJ said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
The whole point of Essentials is to run Essentials (aka essential services). Like it should be dedicated to AD, DNS, DHCP.
That's not its purpose. If those were the only pieces needed, Windows itself makes no sense. It's most fundamental purpose is to run LOB apps that are Windows only.
Essentials makes no sense. Why not just offer Windows standard if that were the case.
Essentials makes total sense. Because it costs less.
You have to provide a financial benefit for spending the extra money on Standard. Without one, you can't say that it makes sense.
Right - standard server requires the use of CALs, Essentials doesn't... that's the main reason to use it at all.
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@Dashrender said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@scottalanmiller said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@IRJ said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@scottalanmiller said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@IRJ said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
The whole point of Essentials is to run Essentials (aka essential services). Like it should be dedicated to AD, DNS, DHCP.
That's not its purpose. If those were the only pieces needed, Windows itself makes no sense. It's most fundamental purpose is to run LOB apps that are Windows only.
Essentials makes no sense. Why not just offer Windows standard if that were the case.
Essentials makes total sense. Because it costs less.
You have to provide a financial benefit for spending the extra money on Standard. Without one, you can't say that it makes sense.
Right - standard server requires the use of CALs, Essentials doesn't... that's the main reason to use it at all.
At four users, Standard would include the CALs. So those aren't a cost factor here, but a good thing to mention in general.
But the base license is like 2/3rds or less as a starting point.
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Backups for the legacy approach here would cost maybe $100 one time for an External disk or two.
Then you'd use any of the open source solutions and just backup the share however many times a day to it and rotate the disks daily.
If you wanted to go further you could add more externals and keep a weeks worth of backup.
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OneDrive would also put copies of the files on every machine, which is a waste of space. Probably not a big deal, but can be an issue. The server would centralize that so that only one copy needs to be maintained and backed up. Less to go wrong.
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@scottalanmiller said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
OneDrive would also put copies of the files on every machine, which is a waste of space. Probably not a big deal, but can be an issue. The server would centralize that so that only one copy needs to be maintained and backed up. Less to go wrong.
it doesn't have to anymore. They have placeholders again.
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What kind of share is expecting to be needed here? 1TB or less I'm assuming.
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@DustinB3403 said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
What kind of share is expecting to be needed here? 1TB or less I'm assuming.
Very small, but many users are on old or small machines, potentially ChromeBooks. So OneDrive wouldn't even work, I don't think.
I think most are like 2-3GB.
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@Dashrender said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@scottalanmiller said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
OneDrive would also put copies of the files on every machine, which is a waste of space. Probably not a big deal, but can be an issue. The server would centralize that so that only one copy needs to be maintained and backed up. Less to go wrong.
it doesn't have to anymore. They have placeholders again.
On ChromeBooks?
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@scottalanmiller said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@DustinB3403 said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
What kind of share is expecting to be needed here? 1TB or less I'm assuming.
Very small, but many users are on old or small machines, potentially ChromeBooks. So OneDrive wouldn't even work, I don't think.
I think most are like 2-3GB.
I was speaking in regards to the entire business. If the entire business is producing 10GB a year might purchase a backup service like BackBlaze Backup. (granted it's $200 a year for 4 people)
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@scottalanmiller said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@Dashrender said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@scottalanmiller said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
OneDrive would also put copies of the files on every machine, which is a waste of space. Probably not a big deal, but can be an issue. The server would centralize that so that only one copy needs to be maintained and backed up. Less to go wrong.
it doesn't have to anymore. They have placeholders again.
On ChromeBooks?
well - you'd have to use the web portal for access - and I have no idea how you would deal with editing things if you need to - of course if you have O365, you can use Online Office.
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@DustinB3403 said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@scottalanmiller said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@DustinB3403 said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
What kind of share is expecting to be needed here? 1TB or less I'm assuming.
Very small, but many users are on old or small machines, potentially ChromeBooks. So OneDrive wouldn't even work, I don't think.
I think most are like 2-3GB.
I was speaking in regards to the entire business. If the entire business is producing 10GB a year might purchase a backup service like BackBlaze Backup. (granted it's $200 a year for 4 people)
Oh, entire business is probably more like 50GB.
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@Dashrender said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@scottalanmiller said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@Dashrender said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@scottalanmiller said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
OneDrive would also put copies of the files on every machine, which is a waste of space. Probably not a big deal, but can be an issue. The server would centralize that so that only one copy needs to be maintained and backed up. Less to go wrong.
it doesn't have to anymore. They have placeholders again.
On ChromeBooks?
well - you'd have to use the web portal for access - and I have no idea how you would deal with editing things if you need to - of course if you have O365, you can use Online Office.
Basically no one needs to, the need for file sharing was assumed by everyone talking, it's not normally part of the business need.
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@scottalanmiller said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@Dashrender said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@scottalanmiller said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@Dashrender said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@scottalanmiller said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
OneDrive would also put copies of the files on every machine, which is a waste of space. Probably not a big deal, but can be an issue. The server would centralize that so that only one copy needs to be maintained and backed up. Less to go wrong.
it doesn't have to anymore. They have placeholders again.
On ChromeBooks?
well - you'd have to use the web portal for access - and I have no idea how you would deal with editing things if you need to - of course if you have O365, you can use Online Office.
Basically no one needs to, the need for file sharing was assumed by everyone talking, it's not normally part of the business need.
I think it was a fair assumption that some form of file sharing is required based on:
@CCWTech said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
In the environment each user is transient, users move around the office and use whatever computer is available to them. So really a need for only 1 user unless we need to lock down certain directories for managers, owners, etc.
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@CCWTech said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@Dashrender said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
No one here knows - we don't run that software.
No one here runs Server 2019 Essentials?
I tried to download the eval when it first came out and then they pulled it. Rolled a 2016 Essentials server last month when 2019 wasn't available.
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@Dashrender said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@IRJ said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@Dashrender said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@IRJ said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@Dashrender said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@CCWTech said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
@Dashrender said in Server 2019 Essentials - Domain controller requirement:
No one here knows - we don't run that software.
No one here runs Server 2019 Essentials?
No - most here run standard Windows Server or some flavor or Linux. Essentials is only for SUPER tiny environments (I think it's limited to 25 connections)... a version that at least with 2012 didn't require User CALs, making it significantly cheaper for super tiny shops that required Windows, but once you hit over 25, you got a HUGE upgrade cost i.e. full server license and 25+ CALs.
Yep. It is generally not reliable either. At least earlier version weren't. Throw all MS services on one piece of underpowered hardware and then throw all your apps over it. What could go wrong?
I guess i was lucky - when they started calling it Essentials - there weren't that many services left - File/Print/AD/DNS/DHCP and what WSUS? that's all pretty typical single box stuff in my mind. WSUS could be shit for sure, but the rest can work together no issues.
Back when it was SBS server and had Exchange and possibly a corporate firewall and SQL server - OMG - yeah, kill me now!.
That's just the out of the box stuff that can be simple solved off windows very easily
Dont forget that these businesses like to throw quickbooks and other poorly made sofware on their Essentials server including these other services which are already too much to have on one box IMO. It's 2019, virtualize
It would be interesting to know if Essentials allows for the install of 3rd party software like that?
Probably does..QuickBooks is the reason I have so many Essentials servers out there. If the environment is large enough where you can't just make one computer "the server" and share QuickBooks from there, Server Essentials goes in along with QuickBooks Database manager and its 25 year old architecture and you call it a day.
