Business thinking - PC replacements
-
My point with that is that #4 would still happen, likely just the same. Your machines were around for seven years and stopped being able to reasonably run the current OS. So they got too far out of date. So if you try to keep hardware for a really long time, #4 will continue to be a problem.
-
@jaredbusch said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
@dashrender said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
But not in the name or license of a new version. We'll get those new updates/features for free as an upgrade to Windows 10
This is the key point on why it can be considered completely different than XP. There is no new licensing thing to drive a hang on to XP or to drive a disaster of an upgrade.
The system is designed to be an in place upgrade and be basically transparent to the end user.
I feel like this is unlikely. So far we've seen only "in between" kernel version updates. MS is going to want the ability to update the interface, make big changes and so forth. Ubuntu offers, and has always offered, this "continuous small updates with no cost" model, and yet we see people running Ubuntu 12.04 regularly. There is something about "not updating" that intrigues a lot of people.
-
@dashrender said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
That's not true. Assuming MS keeps it's printed word, there won't be a Windows 11, or Windows 2020 for the desktop (though I do expect MS to drop the number portion at some point). So the next thing we do have to worry about is MS dropping hardware support from an update. At which point we do actually kind of run into ol' XP issue I was mentioning - i.e. you need to remain supported, but support on that version of Windows 10 is no longer getting updates, and your hardware prevents updates, so you must replace hardware to get newer/supported version of Windows 10.
Right. The NAME isn't going to keep changing, except it already does, of course. The only OS that doesn't is openSuse Tumbleweed. Windows 10, Windows 10 Anniversary, Windows 10 Creator, etc. Two OSes following Windows 10 have already released. They are smaller releases, but releases nonetheless. All MS has done is tacked a "10" onto the name of Windows. It's no long Windows version 1, 2, 3, etc., the product is just Windows 10 version 1, 2, 3, etc. We've just made the base name longer and changed the versions to confusing things like "Anniversary" and "Creators". Nothing real has changed (other than licensing for non-SA users) and the issues of people not updating, and hardware support being only in certain versions remains.
-
@dashrender said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
What is your hardware replacement strategy going to look like for your new company?
Might just be Chromebooks. Use 'em till they drop.
-
@dashrender Yes. They have random issues. PSU, RAM, HDD, MOBO. It takes time to diagnose and swap things out. Also, they are quite slow these days. Sure, I could throw in an SSD but I would still have the other issues as ticking time bombs. Newer machines tend not to have these problems.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
@dashrender said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
That's not true. Assuming MS keeps it's printed word, there won't be a Windows 11, or Windows 2020 for the desktop (though I do expect MS to drop the number portion at some point). So the next thing we do have to worry about is MS dropping hardware support from an update. At which point we do actually kind of run into ol' XP issue I was mentioning - i.e. you need to remain supported, but support on that version of Windows 10 is no longer getting updates, and your hardware prevents updates, so you must replace hardware to get newer/supported version of Windows 10.
Right. The NAME isn't going to keep changing, except it already does, of course. The only OS that doesn't is openSuse Tumbleweed. Windows 10, Windows 10 Anniversary, Windows 10 Creator, etc. Two OSes following Windows 10 have already released. They are smaller releases, but releases nonetheless. All MS has done is tacked a "10" onto the name of Windows. It's no long Windows version 1, 2, 3, etc., the product is just Windows 10 version 1, 2, 3, etc. We've just made the base name longer and changed the versions to confusing things like "Anniversary" and "Creators". Nothing real has changed (other than licensing for non-SA users) and the issues of people not updating, and hardware support being only in certain versions remains.
Sure but unlike the past we have not seen any fees for these versions.
This is/has been surprising, I expected something more like apple with Macs and like $20 for an upgrade. At least I heard that is what apple charges.
-
@dashrender said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
@scottalanmiller said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
@dashrender said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
That's not true. Assuming MS keeps it's printed word, there won't be a Windows 11, or Windows 2020 for the desktop (though I do expect MS to drop the number portion at some point). So the next thing we do have to worry about is MS dropping hardware support from an update. At which point we do actually kind of run into ol' XP issue I was mentioning - i.e. you need to remain supported, but support on that version of Windows 10 is no longer getting updates, and your hardware prevents updates, so you must replace hardware to get newer/supported version of Windows 10.
Right. The NAME isn't going to keep changing, except it already does, of course. The only OS that doesn't is openSuse Tumbleweed. Windows 10, Windows 10 Anniversary, Windows 10 Creator, etc. Two OSes following Windows 10 have already released. They are smaller releases, but releases nonetheless. All MS has done is tacked a "10" onto the name of Windows. It's no long Windows version 1, 2, 3, etc., the product is just Windows 10 version 1, 2, 3, etc. We've just made the base name longer and changed the versions to confusing things like "Anniversary" and "Creators". Nothing real has changed (other than licensing for non-SA users) and the issues of people not updating, and hardware support being only in certain versions remains.
Sure but unlike the past we have not seen any fees for these versions.
This is/has been surprising, I expected something more like apple with Macs and like $20 for an upgrade. At least I heard that is what apple charges.
Been free for years
-
@dashrender The only time they charge you for an upgrade is when you have an outdated Mac (in which you need a new Mac) or when you need an installer media (not needed recently).
-
@dbeato said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
@dashrender The only time they charge you for an upgrade is when you have an outdated Mac (in which you need a new Mac) or when you need an installer media (not needed recently).
No, they charged for upgrades as recently as 2012. OS-X Mountain Lion was $19. The one before was $29. Prior to that it was more than $100.
OS-X Mavericks in 2013 was the first free one.
-
@jaredbusch Yes, that is what I made the statement of Media Installer, every time I needed Mountain Lion I needed to buy a DVD through the Apple Store.
-
Do all your users do the same tasks? Can you justify replacing 20% of your computers to give the power users new machines? Then in year two or three trickle those computers down to other users and get the power users a new batch. That's what I do in CAD environments. The power CAD users always have fast machines and their two and three year old machines are plenty fast for normal office work.
I like the continuous replacement model because you don't get bogged down in a replacement project for months. It's just a background task that entry level people can do.
-
@mike-davis said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
Do all your users do the same tasks? Can you justify replacing 20% of your computers to give the power users new machines? Then in year two or three trickle those computers down to other users and get the power users a new batch. That's what I do in CAD environments. The power CAD users always have fast machines and their two and three year old machines are plenty fast for normal office work.
I like the continuous replacement model because you don't get bogged down in a replacement project for months. It's just a background task that entry level people can do.
I tend to be a fan of trickle down desktops as well. Takes more manual labour, but saves a ton on hardware investments. And it tends to create a chance for everyone to get regular updates instead of just some people.
-
This post is deleted! -
Some additional reasons to upgrade hardware include:
- current warranty for parts and service
- availablitity of parts, for parts replacement. as servers get older and older, it may be difficult to find parts, and those you do find may cost more.
- it's all about cost, and time which == cost.
-
@mike-davis said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
Do all your users do the same tasks? Can you justify replacing 20% of your computers to give the power users new machines? Then in year two or three trickle those computers down to other users and get the power users a new batch. That's what I do in CAD environments. The power CAD users always have fast machines and their two and three year old machines are plenty fast for normal office work.
I like the continuous replacement model because you don't get bogged down in a replacement project for months. It's just a background task that entry level people can do.
Yes everyone pretty much does the same thing. There is little need/if any for anyone in the office to have a more powerful than anyone else.
So this thought process doesn't really apply.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
@mike-davis said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
Do all your users do the same tasks? Can you justify replacing 20% of your computers to give the power users new machines? Then in year two or three trickle those computers down to other users and get the power users a new batch. That's what I do in CAD environments. The power CAD users always have fast machines and their two and three year old machines are plenty fast for normal office work.
I like the continuous replacement model because you don't get bogged down in a replacement project for months. It's just a background task that entry level people can do.
I tend to be a fan of trickle down desktops as well. Takes more manual labour, but saves a ton on hardware investments. And it tends to create a chance for everyone to get regular updates instead of just some people.
eh? everyone to get regular updates? I have two to general generations of PCs here. Moving to a forced 5 year replacement plan, I suppose people through a trickle down could get a different piece of hardware, but doesn't really this shouldn't affect user's function.
-
@darek-hamann said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
Some additional reasons to upgrade hardware include:
- current warranty for parts and service
- availablitity of parts, for parts replacement. as servers get older and older, it may be difficult to find parts, and those you do find may cost more.
- it's all about cost, and time which == cost.
We're talking about PCs/laptops, in servers these things make total sense, but desktops frequently outlast their warranty time frame. Also considering the cost of longer warranty versus low failure rate which could require a machine replacement - the occasional replacement has been fair less expensive than the cost of adding the warranties?
i.e. We purchased 30 laptops in 2007, we still had 27 of them in service in 2014. Adding a 3 year warranty would have cost significantly more than the 3 replacement units.
-
@Dashrender the best thing to do is just budget in the costs yearly even if you don't do it. so in 5-7 years you know you cna just do a mass swap and be done with it.
-
@jaredbusch said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
@Dashrender the best thing to do is just budget in the costs yearly even if you don't do it. so in 5-7 years you know you cna just do a mass swap and be done with it.
This is actually my proposed plan in my OP.
-
Basically... work out roughly a replacement frequency that is sensible throughout the farm. If that is ever four, five or eight years average, whatever. Now put away every year towards that, consider that money "spent" whether it is or not. Have it at the ready and buy new machines when the right time comes. There is really no better way to handle it.
You can't tell ahead of time what a good replacement time is going to be, nearly all of the deciding factors would be complete guesses today. OS compatibility, security features, changes in needs, hardware failure rates, changes in office staff, changes in work environment and so forth. You can't predict that stuff two years out, let alone eight. Nor can you tell when desktops will go on sale, go up in price, suddenly get cheaper, etc. You just have to be ready.
