Business thinking - PC replacements
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@scottalanmiller said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
I don't understand the Windows 10 "last version we will release" logic. We are already past that and new versions past Windows 10 have been released. Windows 10 might be the last prefix used, but we already know that it wasn't the last OS and a totally new OS version is already out in preview for server and we know that that will be reflected in the client as well.
But not in the name or license of a new version. We'll get those new updates/features for free as an upgrade to Windows 10
What issue with XP will be resolved with Windows 10? I see all of those risks continuing just as before. You will still have old version that get old and you still risk not keeping your systems up to date.
That's not true. Assuming MS keeps it's printed word, there won't be a Windows 11, or Windows 2020 for the desktop (though I do expect MS to drop the number portion at some point). So the next thing we do have to worry about is MS dropping hardware support from an update. At which point we do actually kind of run into ol' XP issue I was mentioning - i.e. you need to remain supported, but support on that version of Windows 10 is no longer getting updates, and your hardware prevents updates, so you must replace hardware to get newer/supported version of Windows 10.
I did consider this while writing my OP, I just opted to leave it out until called upon.
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OK @scottalanmiller so outside of the picking on one point - how do you like the rest of the writeup? What would you change?
What is your hardware replacement strategy going to look like for your new company?
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@dashrender said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
But not in the name or license of a new version. We'll get those new updates/features for free as an upgrade to Windows 10
This is the key point on why it can be considered completely different than XP. There is no new licensing thing to drive a hang on to XP or to drive a disaster of an upgrade.
The system is designed to be an in place upgrade and be basically transparent to the end user.
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Dell's desktop (and probably laptop) life-cycle is basically 5 years. AFAIK,they won't warranty Optiplex desktops past 5 years. I am in the middle of my second PC refresh here and we are replacing desktops that are between 5 and 6 years old. In my case, it is the Optiplex 390 series that are EOL.
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@wrx7m said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
Dell's desktop (and probably laptop) life-cycle is basically 5 years. AFAIK,they won't warranty Optiplex desktops past 5 years. I am in the middle of my second PC refresh here and we are replacing desktops that are between 5 and 6 years old. In my case, it is the Optiplex 390 series that are EOL.
Is there anything wrong with them? i.e. are they failing a lot? are they no longer up to the task?
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@dashrender said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
@scottalanmiller said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
I don't understand the Windows 10 "last version we will release" logic. We are already past that and new versions past Windows 10 have been released. Windows 10 might be the last prefix used, but we already know that it wasn't the last OS and a totally new OS version is already out in preview for server and we know that that will be reflected in the client as well.
But not in the name or license of a new version. We'll get those new updates/features for free as an upgrade to Windows 10
Same as you had before if you had SA, used anything other than Windows or just paid for updates. Issues causing people to fall behind are often caused by people simply not caring, having some paranoia keeping them from allowing updates or a technological limitation that kept them stuck at some level. Those things will remain.
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My point with that is that #4 would still happen, likely just the same. Your machines were around for seven years and stopped being able to reasonably run the current OS. So they got too far out of date. So if you try to keep hardware for a really long time, #4 will continue to be a problem.
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@jaredbusch said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
@dashrender said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
But not in the name or license of a new version. We'll get those new updates/features for free as an upgrade to Windows 10
This is the key point on why it can be considered completely different than XP. There is no new licensing thing to drive a hang on to XP or to drive a disaster of an upgrade.
The system is designed to be an in place upgrade and be basically transparent to the end user.
I feel like this is unlikely. So far we've seen only "in between" kernel version updates. MS is going to want the ability to update the interface, make big changes and so forth. Ubuntu offers, and has always offered, this "continuous small updates with no cost" model, and yet we see people running Ubuntu 12.04 regularly. There is something about "not updating" that intrigues a lot of people.
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@dashrender said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
That's not true. Assuming MS keeps it's printed word, there won't be a Windows 11, or Windows 2020 for the desktop (though I do expect MS to drop the number portion at some point). So the next thing we do have to worry about is MS dropping hardware support from an update. At which point we do actually kind of run into ol' XP issue I was mentioning - i.e. you need to remain supported, but support on that version of Windows 10 is no longer getting updates, and your hardware prevents updates, so you must replace hardware to get newer/supported version of Windows 10.
Right. The NAME isn't going to keep changing, except it already does, of course. The only OS that doesn't is openSuse Tumbleweed. Windows 10, Windows 10 Anniversary, Windows 10 Creator, etc. Two OSes following Windows 10 have already released. They are smaller releases, but releases nonetheless. All MS has done is tacked a "10" onto the name of Windows. It's no long Windows version 1, 2, 3, etc., the product is just Windows 10 version 1, 2, 3, etc. We've just made the base name longer and changed the versions to confusing things like "Anniversary" and "Creators". Nothing real has changed (other than licensing for non-SA users) and the issues of people not updating, and hardware support being only in certain versions remains.
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@dashrender said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
What is your hardware replacement strategy going to look like for your new company?
Might just be Chromebooks. Use 'em till they drop.
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@dashrender Yes. They have random issues. PSU, RAM, HDD, MOBO. It takes time to diagnose and swap things out. Also, they are quite slow these days. Sure, I could throw in an SSD but I would still have the other issues as ticking time bombs. Newer machines tend not to have these problems.
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@scottalanmiller said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
@dashrender said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
That's not true. Assuming MS keeps it's printed word, there won't be a Windows 11, or Windows 2020 for the desktop (though I do expect MS to drop the number portion at some point). So the next thing we do have to worry about is MS dropping hardware support from an update. At which point we do actually kind of run into ol' XP issue I was mentioning - i.e. you need to remain supported, but support on that version of Windows 10 is no longer getting updates, and your hardware prevents updates, so you must replace hardware to get newer/supported version of Windows 10.
Right. The NAME isn't going to keep changing, except it already does, of course. The only OS that doesn't is openSuse Tumbleweed. Windows 10, Windows 10 Anniversary, Windows 10 Creator, etc. Two OSes following Windows 10 have already released. They are smaller releases, but releases nonetheless. All MS has done is tacked a "10" onto the name of Windows. It's no long Windows version 1, 2, 3, etc., the product is just Windows 10 version 1, 2, 3, etc. We've just made the base name longer and changed the versions to confusing things like "Anniversary" and "Creators". Nothing real has changed (other than licensing for non-SA users) and the issues of people not updating, and hardware support being only in certain versions remains.
Sure but unlike the past we have not seen any fees for these versions.
This is/has been surprising, I expected something more like apple with Macs and like $20 for an upgrade. At least I heard that is what apple charges.
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@dashrender said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
@scottalanmiller said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
@dashrender said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
That's not true. Assuming MS keeps it's printed word, there won't be a Windows 11, or Windows 2020 for the desktop (though I do expect MS to drop the number portion at some point). So the next thing we do have to worry about is MS dropping hardware support from an update. At which point we do actually kind of run into ol' XP issue I was mentioning - i.e. you need to remain supported, but support on that version of Windows 10 is no longer getting updates, and your hardware prevents updates, so you must replace hardware to get newer/supported version of Windows 10.
Right. The NAME isn't going to keep changing, except it already does, of course. The only OS that doesn't is openSuse Tumbleweed. Windows 10, Windows 10 Anniversary, Windows 10 Creator, etc. Two OSes following Windows 10 have already released. They are smaller releases, but releases nonetheless. All MS has done is tacked a "10" onto the name of Windows. It's no long Windows version 1, 2, 3, etc., the product is just Windows 10 version 1, 2, 3, etc. We've just made the base name longer and changed the versions to confusing things like "Anniversary" and "Creators". Nothing real has changed (other than licensing for non-SA users) and the issues of people not updating, and hardware support being only in certain versions remains.
Sure but unlike the past we have not seen any fees for these versions.
This is/has been surprising, I expected something more like apple with Macs and like $20 for an upgrade. At least I heard that is what apple charges.
Been free for years
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@dashrender The only time they charge you for an upgrade is when you have an outdated Mac (in which you need a new Mac) or when you need an installer media (not needed recently).
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@dbeato said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
@dashrender The only time they charge you for an upgrade is when you have an outdated Mac (in which you need a new Mac) or when you need an installer media (not needed recently).
No, they charged for upgrades as recently as 2012. OS-X Mountain Lion was $19. The one before was $29. Prior to that it was more than $100.
OS-X Mavericks in 2013 was the first free one.
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@jaredbusch Yes, that is what I made the statement of Media Installer, every time I needed Mountain Lion I needed to buy a DVD through the Apple Store.
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Do all your users do the same tasks? Can you justify replacing 20% of your computers to give the power users new machines? Then in year two or three trickle those computers down to other users and get the power users a new batch. That's what I do in CAD environments. The power CAD users always have fast machines and their two and three year old machines are plenty fast for normal office work.
I like the continuous replacement model because you don't get bogged down in a replacement project for months. It's just a background task that entry level people can do.
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@mike-davis said in Business thinking - PC replacements:
Do all your users do the same tasks? Can you justify replacing 20% of your computers to give the power users new machines? Then in year two or three trickle those computers down to other users and get the power users a new batch. That's what I do in CAD environments. The power CAD users always have fast machines and their two and three year old machines are plenty fast for normal office work.
I like the continuous replacement model because you don't get bogged down in a replacement project for months. It's just a background task that entry level people can do.
I tend to be a fan of trickle down desktops as well. Takes more manual labour, but saves a ton on hardware investments. And it tends to create a chance for everyone to get regular updates instead of just some people.
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Some additional reasons to upgrade hardware include:
- current warranty for parts and service
- availablitity of parts, for parts replacement. as servers get older and older, it may be difficult to find parts, and those you do find may cost more.
- it's all about cost, and time which == cost.
