Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise
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Re: Switchvox phone issues
@scottalanmiller said in Switchvox phone issues:@whoolly said in Switchvox phone issues:
Hey SAM, I sent the vendor a link to the Digium SonicWall reference, http://support.digium.com/articles/FAQ/What-Are-Relevant-Sonicwall-Settings-for-Switchvox?popup=false
I will ask about the SIP-ALG.
thanks as always.Often it is cheaper to replace a SonicWall with higher end enterprise gear than it is to work on the existing box. That's not a stretch, that's real world. A higher end system is about $95 from Ubiquiti that doesn't have the same VoIP problems. So if the hourly billing to work on the SonicWall approaches $95 (plus the time to install the replacement) it can end up being worlds cheaper to just replace it than to fix it.
What in Ubiquiti (hardware) makes it so much more enterprise than the supposed enterprise hardware (sonicwall, cisco etc)?
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The answer mostly is cost.
Although the performance of the ubiquity equipment often trumps Cisco another stuff until you get to the very expensive Cisco gear.
Thomas on top of that the fact that ubiquity gives away updates for free it really makes it a no-brainer it compared to Cisco gear. -
Now this isn't saying that there is not a case to use the score other brands you might have a specific need for a certain features that does not exist in ubiquity.
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I get the idea of using ubiquiti and do, but I see @scottalanmiller spout things like this and wonder what specifically makes a single board any better than another.
If it's just the business has gone scorched earth with their client base, ok. If it's actually them using the worst hardware possible, ok, show me.
Etc
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@dustinb3403 said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
Re: Switchvox phone issues
@scottalanmiller said in Switchvox phone issues:@whoolly said in Switchvox phone issues:
Hey SAM, I sent the vendor a link to the Digium SonicWall reference, http://support.digium.com/articles/FAQ/What-Are-Relevant-Sonicwall-Settings-for-Switchvox?popup=false
I will ask about the SIP-ALG.
thanks as always.Often it is cheaper to replace a SonicWall with higher end enterprise gear than it is to work on the existing box. That's not a stretch, that's real world. A higher end system is about $95 from Ubiquiti that doesn't have the same VoIP problems. So if the hourly billing to work on the SonicWall approaches $95 (plus the time to install the replacement) it can end up being worlds cheaper to just replace it than to fix it.
What in Ubiquiti (hardware) makes it so much more enterprise than the supposed enterprise hardware (sonicwall, cisco etc)?
The software. The hardware is about equal, sort of.
But a $95 Ubiquiti is faster than a $3,000 CIsco. So the hardware still matters. Cisco at $3,000 is "Maybe able to handle your house."
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@dashrender said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
The answer mostly is cost.
Although the performance of the ubiquity equipment often trumps Cisco another stuff until you get to the very expensive Cisco gear.
Thomas on top of that the fact that ubiquity gives away updates for free it really makes it a no-brainer it compared to Cisco gear.Cost is what makes one sensible and one a joke. You can't pay hundreds or thousands for lesser SonicWall or Cisco gear when Ubiquiti has better software AND hardware for under $100.
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@scottalanmiller said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
@dustinb3403 said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
Re: Switchvox phone issues
@scottalanmiller said in Switchvox phone issues:@whoolly said in Switchvox phone issues:
Hey SAM, I sent the vendor a link to the Digium SonicWall reference, http://support.digium.com/articles/FAQ/What-Are-Relevant-Sonicwall-Settings-for-Switchvox?popup=false
I will ask about the SIP-ALG.
thanks as always.Often it is cheaper to replace a SonicWall with higher end enterprise gear than it is to work on the existing box. That's not a stretch, that's real world. A higher end system is about $95 from Ubiquiti that doesn't have the same VoIP problems. So if the hourly billing to work on the SonicWall approaches $95 (plus the time to install the replacement) it can end up being worlds cheaper to just replace it than to fix it.
What in Ubiquiti (hardware) makes it so much more enterprise than the supposed enterprise hardware (sonicwall, cisco etc)?
The software. The hardware is about equal.
So just developers is the root cause. Fair enough. That I've seen and love Ubiquiti's interface and functionality way more than anything from Cisco.
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Is the issue "No one ever got fired for buying IBM" an issue here. I feel it is, but have a hard time placing it when I've personally worked on both sides.
Only Ubiquiti have I bought (personally)
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@dustinb3403 said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
@dustinb3403 said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
Re: Switchvox phone issues
@scottalanmiller said in Switchvox phone issues:@whoolly said in Switchvox phone issues:
Hey SAM, I sent the vendor a link to the Digium SonicWall reference, http://support.digium.com/articles/FAQ/What-Are-Relevant-Sonicwall-Settings-for-Switchvox?popup=false
I will ask about the SIP-ALG.
thanks as always.Often it is cheaper to replace a SonicWall with higher end enterprise gear than it is to work on the existing box. That's not a stretch, that's real world. A higher end system is about $95 from Ubiquiti that doesn't have the same VoIP problems. So if the hourly billing to work on the SonicWall approaches $95 (plus the time to install the replacement) it can end up being worlds cheaper to just replace it than to fix it.
What in Ubiquiti (hardware) makes it so much more enterprise than the supposed enterprise hardware (sonicwall, cisco etc)?
The software. The hardware is about equal.
So just developers is the root cause. Fair enough. That I've seen and love Ubiquiti's interface and functionality way more than anything from Cisco.
It's also support, usability and so forth. Ubiquiti has better software than SonicWall, better hardware than Cisco. Those two examples end up being very different, but both fall prey to Ubiquiti simply having an all around better product. SonicWall has documentation and support issues with its software being less than ready to be deployed, Cisco uses hardware that is a complete joke. Ubiquiti simply doesn't follow in their missteps and given the vastly lower price simply makes neither of those two players applicable in any realistic, real world deployment consideration.
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@dustinb3403 said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
Is the issue "No one ever got fired for buying IBM" an issue here. I feel it is, but have a hard time placing it when I've personally worked on both sides.
Only Ubiquiti have I bought (personally)
Yes, lots of corrupt people hoping to leverage politics and either use it to skip doing the job that they are paid to do or feel that their boss(es) will do the same buy something knowing that it is a bad idea because they think that it benefits them personally rather than the organization.
http://www.smbitjournal.com/2016/10/no-one-ever-got-fired-for-buying/
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@dashrender said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
Now this isn't saying that there is not a case to use the score other brands you might have a specific need for a certain features that does not exist in ubiquity.
Right, there are cases where you would need Cisco, for example, but not in this price range.
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@dustinb3403 said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
Is the issue "No one ever got fired for buying IBM" an issue here.
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@scottalanmiller said in [Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise]
The software. The hardware is about equal, sort of.
But a $95 Ubiquiti is faster than a $3,000 CIsco. So the hardware still matters. Cisco at $3,000 is "Maybe able to handle your house."
Prove this.
Don't bullshit or theorize. Prove it. Get a unit and run tests or stopping stating it like a fact and predicate these statements with "in my opinion" and such.
Granted I'll never buy Cisco in the SMB when Ubiquiti exists for the cost and performance that it currently exists with.
But none of that invalidates the quality or functionality of Cisco hardware and software.
Cost has nothing to do with that.
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for components like hard disk drives, i use MTBF as a metric to see what to buy.
You can check consumer devices MTBF, then find same manufacturer's enterprise version of same stuff, MTBF will typically be much higher. -
@jaredbusch said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in [Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise]
The software. The hardware is about equal, sort of.
But a $95 Ubiquiti is faster than a $3,000 CIsco. So the hardware still matters. Cisco at $3,000 is "Maybe able to handle your house."
Prove this.
Don't bullshit or theorize. Prove it. Get a unit and run tests or stopping stating it like a fact and predicate these statements with "in my opinion" and such.
Granted I'll never buy Cisco in the SMB when Ubiquiti exists for the cost and performance that it currently exists with.
But none of that invalidates the quality or functionality of Cisco hardware and software.
Cost has nothing to do with that.
I'm not the one making the claim, it's based off of measured PPS between the two.
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@scottalanmiller said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
@jaredbusch said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in [Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise]
The software. The hardware is about equal, sort of.
But a $95 Ubiquiti is faster than a $3,000 CIsco. So the hardware still matters. Cisco at $3,000 is "Maybe able to handle your house."
Prove this.
Don't bullshit or theorize. Prove it. Get a unit and run tests or stopping stating it like a fact and predicate these statements with "in my opinion" and such.
Granted I'll never buy Cisco in the SMB when Ubiquiti exists for the cost and performance that it currently exists with.
But none of that invalidates the quality or functionality of Cisco hardware and software.
Cost has nothing to do with that.
I'm not the one making the claim, it's based off of measured PPS between the two.
You are the one always making the claim and have never linked to source material to back up your claims.
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@jaredbusch said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
But none of that invalidates the quality or functionality of Cisco hardware and software.
Cost has nothing to do with that.
Correct, it's down to cost / performance at that point. Cisco is just fine (if you can get through their marketing BS and inability to understand their projects and attempts to bully the SMB) as gear IF the price is competitive. But under $3K, is there any Cisco that competes with the ERL? Cisco isn't offering features that surpass it, nor performance that keeps up. Nor even equal licensing value. So assuming equal features (which Cisco doesn't appear to offer) we have to look at price/performance. And hence why the $3K number is important, above that price range you can get Ciscos that get into a range that Ubiquiti can't keep up with. Below that, Cisco isn't providing a value proposition to consider.
That's not that Cisco offers no special value, but their core value is in support which Ubiquiti trumps with cost so low that you can have spare gear for far less than support from Cisco and failover is more valuable than support.
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@scottalanmiller said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
@jaredbusch said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in [Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise]
The software. The hardware is about equal, sort of.
But a $95 Ubiquiti is faster than a $3,000 CIsco. So the hardware still matters. Cisco at $3,000 is "Maybe able to handle your house."
Prove this.
Don't bullshit or theorize. Prove it. Get a unit and run tests or stopping stating it like a fact and predicate these statements with "in my opinion" and such.
Granted I'll never buy Cisco in the SMB when Ubiquiti exists for the cost and performance that it currently exists with.
But none of that invalidates the quality or functionality of Cisco hardware and software.
Cost has nothing to do with that.
I'm not the one making the claim, it's based off of measured PPS between the two.
Which is what Ubiquiti has said about their own product. And PPS isn't always the metric that matters.
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@jaredbusch said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
@jaredbusch said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in [Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise]
The software. The hardware is about equal, sort of.
But a $95 Ubiquiti is faster than a $3,000 CIsco. So the hardware still matters. Cisco at $3,000 is "Maybe able to handle your house."
Prove this.
Don't bullshit or theorize. Prove it. Get a unit and run tests or stopping stating it like a fact and predicate these statements with "in my opinion" and such.
Granted I'll never buy Cisco in the SMB when Ubiquiti exists for the cost and performance that it currently exists with.
But none of that invalidates the quality or functionality of Cisco hardware and software.
Cost has nothing to do with that.
I'm not the one making the claim, it's based off of measured PPS between the two.
You are the one always making the claim and have never linked to source material to back up your claims.
I've never made the claim. I've repeated Ubiquiti's performance measurements. It's nothing to do with me. I just remember the number and repeat it as it is a critical guideline for understanding where Ubiquiti falls within the Cisco product range. When people are talking $10K Ciscos, we can't talk Ubiquiti, it just doesn't make sense. But at $3K and below, I've never had anyone come up with any value proposition to Cisco gear considering that Ubiquiti is measured at better throughput until that price point. Granted, Ubiquiti did the study, but Cisco has not disputed it or claimed any other performance of which I am aware.
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@stacksofplates said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
@jaredbusch said in Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise:
@scottalanmiller said in [Hardware differences - what makes one less than enterprise]
The software. The hardware is about equal, sort of.
But a $95 Ubiquiti is faster than a $3,000 CIsco. So the hardware still matters. Cisco at $3,000 is "Maybe able to handle your house."
Prove this.
Don't bullshit or theorize. Prove it. Get a unit and run tests or stopping stating it like a fact and predicate these statements with "in my opinion" and such.
Granted I'll never buy Cisco in the SMB when Ubiquiti exists for the cost and performance that it currently exists with.
But none of that invalidates the quality or functionality of Cisco hardware and software.
Cost has nothing to do with that.
I'm not the one making the claim, it's based off of measured PPS between the two.
Which is what Ubiquiti has said about their own product. And PPS isn't always the metric that matters.
Correct. If there is a dispute, take it up with Ubiquiti, not me. And if you need a different measurement, then that's fine, but that needs to be tested or something.
