PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?
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@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
While I realize that more and more things are computer controlled, that is why things like OBDII ports are included in cars and (I'd be surprised if not in some tractors by now) to help tell the owner (or licensed mechanic) what exactly is wrong, and what parts to replace, etc.
But you might not have the legal right to replace the parts or fix things that are broken. And what happens when the parts are no longer available?
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@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
While I realize that more and more things are computer controlled, that is why things like OBDII ports are included in cars and (I'd be surprised if not in some tractors by now) to help tell the owner (or licensed mechanic) what exactly is wrong, and what parts to replace, etc.
But you might not have the legal right to replace the parts or fix things that are broken. And what happens when the parts are no longer available?
They can throw me in jail. Thta's like telling a PC Repair Technician that they cannot replace a hard drive because it will void the warranty. Yeah? So?
If the parts aren't available any more, then it's time to upgrade, lol.
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@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
They can throw me in jail. Thta's like telling a PC Repair Technician that they cannot replace a hard drive because it will void the warranty. Yeah? So?
No, this is totally unrelated to warranties.
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@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
If the parts aren't available any more, then it's time to upgrade, lol.
What if you bought it yesterday and it's a million dollar tractor?
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@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
If the parts aren't available any more, then it's time to upgrade, lol.
What if you bought it yesterday and it's a million dollar tractor?
That's part of the research you do before buying a million dollar tractor (or a million dollars worth of tractors).
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@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
They can throw me in jail. Thta's like telling a PC Repair Technician that they cannot replace a hard drive because it will void the warranty. Yeah? So?
No, this is totally unrelated to warranties.
True, totally unrelated. But would you throw your average user who is attempting to replace their hard drive in jail because they made the problem worse?
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@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
If the parts aren't available any more, then it's time to upgrade, lol.
What if you bought it yesterday and it's a million dollar tractor?
That's part of the research you do before buying a million dollar tractor (or a million dollars worth of tractors).
How do you research that? It's not open, so you can't research it with any reliability.
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@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
They can throw me in jail. Thta's like telling a PC Repair Technician that they cannot replace a hard drive because it will void the warranty. Yeah? So?
No, this is totally unrelated to warranties.
True, totally unrelated. But would you throw your average user who is attempting to replace their hard drive in jail because they made the problem worse?
That's what companies do, yes.
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@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
If the parts aren't available any more, then it's time to upgrade, lol.
What if you bought it yesterday and it's a million dollar tractor?
If things were open, then anybody with a 3d printer (or a friend with one) could have the part they need made for them... (or CNC machine if the part is metal, or RPi if the part is computerized [programming may be required, lol])
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@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
If the parts aren't available any more, then it's time to upgrade, lol.
What if you bought it yesterday and it's a million dollar tractor?
If things were open, then anybody with a 3d printer (or a friend with one) could have the part they need made for them... (or CNC machine if the part is metal, or RPi if the part is computerized [programming may be required, lol])
Exactly. If they were open. Hence the whole point.
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Or make an improved part. Or change how things work.
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@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
They can throw me in jail. Thta's like telling a PC Repair Technician that they cannot replace a hard drive because it will void the warranty. Yeah? So?
No, this is totally unrelated to warranties.
True, totally unrelated. But would you throw your average user who is attempting to replace their hard drive in jail because they made the problem worse?
That's what companies do, yes.
Arguably in this case, I'd call it a fine. "you attempted to fix it, and you made it worse. Now instead of $50 for a new hard drive, you have to pay $300 for a new motherboard and a new hard drive"
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@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
They can throw me in jail. Thta's like telling a PC Repair Technician that they cannot replace a hard drive because it will void the warranty. Yeah? So?
No, this is totally unrelated to warranties.
True, totally unrelated. But would you throw your average user who is attempting to replace their hard drive in jail because they made the problem worse?
That's what companies do, yes.
Arguably in this case, I'd call it a fine. "you attempted to fix it, and you made it worse. Now instead of $50 for a new hard drive, you have to pay $300 for a new motherboard and a new hard drive"
Making it worse is a red herring. It's "attempting to fix it" that is illegal in many cases. Just the attempt. The results are irrelevant.
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@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
They can throw me in jail. Thta's like telling a PC Repair Technician that they cannot replace a hard drive because it will void the warranty. Yeah? So?
No, this is totally unrelated to warranties.
True, totally unrelated. But would you throw your average user who is attempting to replace their hard drive in jail because they made the problem worse?
That's what companies do, yes.
Arguably in this case, I'd call it a fine. "you attempted to fix it, and you made it worse. Now instead of $50 for a new hard drive, you have to pay $300 for a new motherboard and a new hard drive"
But the whole point is that you can actually face jail time.
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@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
They can throw me in jail. Thta's like telling a PC Repair Technician that they cannot replace a hard drive because it will void the warranty. Yeah? So?
No, this is totally unrelated to warranties.
True, totally unrelated. But would you throw your average user who is attempting to replace their hard drive in jail because they made the problem worse?
That's what companies do, yes.
Arguably in this case, I'd call it a fine. "you attempted to fix it, and you made it worse. Now instead of $50 for a new hard drive, you have to pay $300 for a new motherboard and a new hard drive"
But the whole point is that you can actually face jail time.
This is the reason some things need to be open (Is it me, or did we say all that and just go full circle?).
If I have the know how, or think I have the know how to fix something, why should I not be legally able to try? How do you learn, but by experience?
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@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
This is the reason some things need to be open (Is it me, or did we say all that and just go full circle?).
If I have the know how, or think I have the know how to fix something, why should I not be legally able to try? How do you learn, but by experience?
But it has to be open to do the thing you just said. Being able to try requires it being open, currently.
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Basically, open means the right to try to fix it yourself.
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@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
Basically, open means the right to try to fix it yourself.
I think that may be what confuses me... Does my car design have to be open for me to legally replace the fan belts?
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In most of these cases (you guys are using extremes, attempting to fix it as the argument is BS).
You can attempt to work on anything you own, outright without facing charges. If you attempt to change or publish what you found, how it works etc that is where you get into trouble.
@scottalanmiller have you ever been disclosed from discussing in public about how to repair a hardware problem for a system? Or has it always been "you can't discuss how it operates"
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@dafyre said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
@scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:
Basically, open means the right to try to fix it yourself.
I think that may be what confuses me... Does my car design have to be open for me to legally replace the fan belts?
Yes. But your car design IS open, more or less. That part of it, at least. It's not open with a GPL license, but it is not obscured from you. So it is default open.
That was the point of the video. It used to all be open and you were allowed to work on it. The DMCA provided the power to make it illegal to work on things that were closed and many companies have leveraged this intentionally or accidentally making working on your own stuff easily illegal in many cases.
