Windows Phone :(
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@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB said:
People cry (and cry and cry and cry) about the Apps, yes it's an issue but I use my phone primarily as a phone and utilise very few apps. So this isn't something that I really care about.
Same here, I have very few apps. But the few that I have Windows Phone did not have. But while searching for them to see if they were there, dozens of malware pretenders for each one was certainly available. My concern is less with the absence of what is needed but the inability to discern when it is real or not.
It is very hard to tell. I never use Instagram, but I have an account. It's still in beta on WP. It's been in beta for like 2 years. There is a developer named Rudy Huyn who makes some cool WP apps. It's pretty sad when his Instagram replacement app is better than the **actual **one developed by Instagram.
My whole point is that this makes it even harder to distinguish between real and fake apps. The main app companies aren't making apps, so either third party companies or individuals are doing it. But, now you have to figure out whether the third party app is legit or it's some kind of junkware.
I've tried and can't switch back. Things I use almost daily and a little less frequently just don't exist on there.
Alfresco, Amazon Prime Music, Amazon Cloud Drive/Photos, bank apps, Chrome, SSH tools, Wave, ZeroTier, Android (or Apple) Pay, Google Authenticator (there are some apps, but again not by Google and I don't trust third party apps for that function), and more.
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@johnhooks said:
My whole point is that this makes it even harder to distinguish between real and fake apps. The main app companies aren't making apps, so either third party companies or individuals are doing it. But, now you have to figure out whether the third party app is legit or it's some kind of junkware.
The real problem is the app store. Apple actively ensures that fakes aren't allowed. Tricking people with fake malware is carefully controlled. Plus the real apps are easy to find.
Windows has the "lock down" of the Apple store without the protections. But it lacks the wide open protections that exist in the normal computer world where you go to the website for the real company and get the app or the link at least from them directly. With Windows, even learning about an app there is no way to ensure that you are getting the real thing. Microsoft themselves set you up for malware and failure while blocking the tools we would normally use to protect ourselves. It's the worst of both worlds.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB said:
People cry (and cry and cry and cry) about the Apps, yes it's an issue but I use my phone primarily as a phone and utilise very few apps. So this isn't something that I really care about.
Same here, I have very few apps. But the few that I have Windows Phone did not have. But while searching for them to see if they were there, dozens of malware pretenders for each one was certainly available. My concern is less with the absence of what is needed but the inability to discern when it is real or not.
This is definitely a huge problem. I don't use iPhone so I don't know if they suffer this problem, but the Google Play store does suffer it to a lesser degree.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB said:
People cry (and cry and cry and cry) about the Apps, yes it's an issue but I use my phone primarily as a phone and utilise very few apps. So this isn't something that I really care about.
Same here, I have very few apps. But the few that I have Windows Phone did not have. But while searching for them to see if they were there, dozens of malware pretenders for each one was certainly available. My concern is less with the absence of what is needed but the inability to discern when it is real or not.
This is definitely a huge problem. I don't use iPhone so I don't know if they suffer this problem, but the Google Play store does suffer it to a lesser degree.
I don't see it in any form on the iPhone. Not at all. Apple is very careful to not allow any fake apps into the app store.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB said:
People cry (and cry and cry and cry) about the Apps, yes it's an issue but I use my phone primarily as a phone and utilise very few apps. So this isn't something that I really care about.
Same here, I have very few apps. But the few that I have Windows Phone did not have. But while searching for them to see if they were there, dozens of malware pretenders for each one was certainly available. My concern is less with the absence of what is needed but the inability to discern when it is real or not.
This is definitely a huge problem. I don't use iPhone so I don't know if they suffer this problem, but the Google Play store does suffer it to a lesser degree.
I don't see it in any form on the iPhone. Not at all. Apple is very careful to not allow any fake apps into the app store.
So a highly curated store offers protection but at the same time stifles creativity because you must fit into the box Apple forces you into. It has good and bad points - I'm not sure which is ultimately better.
Though it wouldn't be hard to only kill apps that are clearly trying to be fakes - it would be hard to not kill those who are trying to create a better mouse trap but not be fake about it.
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@Dashrender said:
So a highly curated store offers protection but at the same time stifles creativity because you must fit into the box Apple forces you into. It has good and bad points - I'm not sure which is ultimately better.
Correct. However it doesn't curtail creativity to the same degree that the Windows Phone platform does. So in comparison, it is a full on win. Compared to Android, though, it is a draw, I think. I would never be okay with that approach for my desktop, but for my phone I prefer the iOS App Store curated approach. But for my television attached device, I want the Android approach.
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@Dashrender said:
Though it wouldn't be hard to only kill apps that are clearly trying to be fakes - it would be hard to not kill those who are trying to create a better mouse trap but not be fake about it.
Yes and, in theory, that is what Apple tries to do most of the time. Microsoft seemed dead set on promoting the malware exclusively. I found the Windows app store to be so bad that I would classify it itself as malware!
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Though it wouldn't be hard to only kill apps that are clearly trying to be fakes - it would be hard to not kill those who are trying to create a better mouse trap but not be fake about it.
Yes and, in theory, that is what Apple tries to do most of the time. Microsoft seemed dead set on promoting the malware exclusively. I found the Windows app store to be so bad that I would classify it itself as malware!
Sadly, right now, I have a hard time disagreeing.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
So a highly curated store offers protection but at the same time stifles creativity because you must fit into the box Apple forces you into. It has good and bad points - I'm not sure which is ultimately better.
Correct. However it doesn't curtail creativity to the same degree that the Windows Phone platform does. So in comparison, it is a full on win. Compared to Android, though, it is a draw, I think. I would never be okay with that approach for my desktop, but for my phone I prefer the iOS App Store curated approach. But for my television attached device, I want the Android approach.
So what approach do you want to see on PC's since you don't want the Apple approach?
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Windows Phone is the app store your mama warned you about.
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@Dashrender said:
So what approach do you want to see on PC's since you don't want the Apple approach?
Chocolatey for WP8.1!
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@Dashrender said:
So what approach do you want to see on PC's since you don't want the Apple approach?
The one that exists on Linux. I want a curated app store that I can trust and is supported. Plus the ability to install anything I want, period. I don't want any lock in that I have to use the existing stores. But I like that the store exists.
The Linux stores tend to be dramatically more locked down than Apple's App Store. They don't just require that the product be released but oversee the license, support, integration, stability, etc. It's the best of all options in one place.
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@scottalanmiller said:
The Linux stores tend to be dramatically more locked down than Apple's App Store. They don't just require that the product be released but oversee the license, support, integration, stability, etc. It's the best of all options in one place.
This is the same on Android. At least as long as the device is allowed to install third party stores - and there's always side loading of apps.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
The Linux stores tend to be dramatically more locked down than Apple's App Store. They don't just require that the product be released but oversee the license, support, integration, stability, etc. It's the best of all options in one place.
This is the same on Android. At least as long as the device is allowed to install third party stores - and there's always side loading of apps.
I consider anything that even suggests rooting a device to be utter failure of the most extreme degree. I'm talking about official capabilities, I never mean working around the functionality of the system. Never.
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@Dashrender said:
This is the same on Android. At least as long as the device is allowed to install third party stores
If is the big thing there. None of my Android devices allow that. I know some do. I had one once that did allow that, but the device itself didn't work. So....
If you have pure Android, you have all of the control that you want. If you have any real world Android phones, you do not.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
This is the same on Android. At least as long as the device is allowed to install third party stores
If is the big thing there. None of my Android devices allow that. I know some do. I had one once that did allow that, but the device itself didn't work. So....
If you have pure Android, you have all of the control that you want. If you have any real world Android phones, you do not.
That's odd. Every Android device that I have owned allowed you to sideload apps and app stores without rooting the device. I've owned devices from Samsung, Motorola, and LG.
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@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
This is the same on Android. At least as long as the device is allowed to install third party stores
If is the big thing there. None of my Android devices allow that. I know some do. I had one once that did allow that, but the device itself didn't work. So....
If you have pure Android, you have all of the control that you want. If you have any real world Android phones, you do not.
That's odd. Every Android device that I have owned allowed you to sideload apps and app stores without rooting the device. I've owned devices from Samsung, Motorola, and LG.
Ya it's just a checkbox to allow it.
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I've struggled to even have Android devices that can make calls, texts and get emails so....
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@johnhooks said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
This is the same on Android. At least as long as the device is allowed to install third party stores
If is the big thing there. None of my Android devices allow that. I know some do. I had one once that did allow that, but the device itself didn't work. So....
If you have pure Android, you have all of the control that you want. If you have any real world Android phones, you do not.
That's odd. Every Android device that I have owned allowed you to sideload apps and app stores without rooting the device. I've owned devices from Samsung, Motorola, and LG.
Ya it's just a checkbox to allow it.
Right, in the past the checkbox, once checked, was always on. But the modern Android OS allows you to do it per install, which is so much nicer.
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I say this mostly in jest, but not entirely - Scott seems to have trouble with most things that are not mainly Linux in nature
Granted Android is Linux, he's not rolling his own, so that doesn't count either
