Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive
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@scottalanmiller The general consensus that I've seen (and I don't listen to many of these people) is that all vaccines cause horrible conditions.
Now your third part sounds logical, and I'd need proof to verify it.
But a "cause" and the "Well you risk getting X if you vac against Y does exist, but Y is so many times worse than X, so you really should get the vac for Y."
like being vaccinated against chickenpox, it's a tiny issue compared to the black plague. I'd take CP over BP any day.
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@tonyshowoff said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@tonyshowoff said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@DustinB3403 said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@tonyshowoff said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@gjacobse said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@thwr said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@gjacobse said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
Stepping back to some fundamental items:
-
Generating Power using combustion
** Makes noise and would draws attention.
** Requires Fuel of some kind. Petrol products 'expire' and are limited in supply.
** Requires Fuel storage - which can be a hazard and liability, and difficult to relocate. -
Generating Power using Solar
** Requires space for panels.
** Has to be 'banked' for poor solar exposure days (clouds, darkness)
** Has to be converted to run AC devices
You can generate fuel to run a generator, but it is a process - needs time, resources, and space.
There are other ways of generating electricity, using steam power; either solar based or fuel based - fuel being petrol or biomass... again - needs space and generates some noise.
Keep in mind that solar panels (photovoltaic cells) will degrade over time, same is true for the batteries. They will degrade even faster. While solar panels are OK for like 20 or 30 years, you will need to replace the batteries every 5 to 10 years. Think about your UPS for example. There are technologies that let you store power in a mechanical way, like a flywheel generator, but this may be hard to find.
So something nuclear would be better, IMHO.
Nuclear is better until.... it goes nuclear...
Rather being the dark... They did it in the olden days..
And they died at age 30 even without zombies.
There are some anti-vaccination people determined to return to that.
I say more power to them, I don't need entitled people taking up the space I want. Let them die from SARS or Small Pox or anything else. Time and again there have been repeated studies that show and prove that vaccines don't cause autism etc.
Snopes has numerous posts about it, along with hundreds of other sites.
Listen folks, when you have to go to page 15 of google to read these kinds of thing, take a lot of salt with you!
Actually the small pox risk is created by the vaccers in this case, not the anti-vaccers. There are two distinct movements there that get lumped together. Or three.
There are people simply against vacs. These people are crazy. Polio, for example, heavily depends on vaccinations to protect people.
There there are "vaccination pacing people" who feel that vaccinations are good but how they are done is bad. Almost all doctors that I know are in this camp.
Then there are "chicken pox vaccinations are bad because chicken pox is what protects against small pox and acting like small pox is zero risk is bad" people. We don't vaccinate against small pox because chicken pox was so common that it protected naturally. Now we have started vaccinating against chicken pox, small pox is becoming a big risk because of the vaccinator push rather than because of the anti-vaccination group. This is basically a group of people that want a level of vaccination against small pox that you can't give with a needle but only with a full on chicken pox infection.
You're thinking of cow pox, not chicken pox, they won't protect you from anything except chicken pox, though it can result in shingles. So the vaccination is better. Plus smallpox was effectively wiped out anyway.
That's the problem... people keep saying that small pox is wiped out. But already we've had two or three recent, but thankfully limited, outbreaks caused by the gaps left by not having chicken pox.
@scottalanmiller That's why I said effectively
Cow pox might do the same thing, but it is definitely chicken pox that displaced small pox in the New World by having pretty much ubiquitous infections while creating the same immunities.
The new vaccines are increasing the risk of shingles as well, which really sucks, but not too much (risk, not sucks.)
Chicken pox is completely unrelated and provides no immunity to small pox, it can't "displace" it. Small pox vaccinations had been common since the late 19th century, especially in the western world, that's why there weren't that many outbreaks, not because of chicken pox, because if that were the case, there never would've been small pox outbreaks in the west in the first place where chicken pox has always been prevalent.
No small pox vaccinations here.
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@DustinB3403 said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@scottalanmiller The general consensus that I've seen (and I don't listen to many of these people) is that all vaccines cause horrible conditions.
Now your third part sounds logical, and I'd need proof to verify it.
But a "cause" and the "Well you risk getting X if you vac against Y does exist, but Y is so many times worse than X, so you really should get the vac for Y."
like being vaccinated against chickenpox, it's a tiny issue compared to the black plague. I'd take CP over BP any day.
You can cure plague with antibiotics, assuming we're talking about traditional plague and not pneumonic plague because if that ever outbreaks out again, unless you've got the genes to prevent it (my wife does, I don't) then you're screwed.
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@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@tonyshowoff said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@tonyshowoff said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@DustinB3403 said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@tonyshowoff said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@gjacobse said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@thwr said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@gjacobse said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
Stepping back to some fundamental items:
-
Generating Power using combustion
** Makes noise and would draws attention.
** Requires Fuel of some kind. Petrol products 'expire' and are limited in supply.
** Requires Fuel storage - which can be a hazard and liability, and difficult to relocate. -
Generating Power using Solar
** Requires space for panels.
** Has to be 'banked' for poor solar exposure days (clouds, darkness)
** Has to be converted to run AC devices
You can generate fuel to run a generator, but it is a process - needs time, resources, and space.
There are other ways of generating electricity, using steam power; either solar based or fuel based - fuel being petrol or biomass... again - needs space and generates some noise.
Keep in mind that solar panels (photovoltaic cells) will degrade over time, same is true for the batteries. They will degrade even faster. While solar panels are OK for like 20 or 30 years, you will need to replace the batteries every 5 to 10 years. Think about your UPS for example. There are technologies that let you store power in a mechanical way, like a flywheel generator, but this may be hard to find.
So something nuclear would be better, IMHO.
Nuclear is better until.... it goes nuclear...
Rather being the dark... They did it in the olden days..
And they died at age 30 even without zombies.
There are some anti-vaccination people determined to return to that.
I say more power to them, I don't need entitled people taking up the space I want. Let them die from SARS or Small Pox or anything else. Time and again there have been repeated studies that show and prove that vaccines don't cause autism etc.
Snopes has numerous posts about it, along with hundreds of other sites.
Listen folks, when you have to go to page 15 of google to read these kinds of thing, take a lot of salt with you!
Actually the small pox risk is created by the vaccers in this case, not the anti-vaccers. There are two distinct movements there that get lumped together. Or three.
There are people simply against vacs. These people are crazy. Polio, for example, heavily depends on vaccinations to protect people.
There there are "vaccination pacing people" who feel that vaccinations are good but how they are done is bad. Almost all doctors that I know are in this camp.
Then there are "chicken pox vaccinations are bad because chicken pox is what protects against small pox and acting like small pox is zero risk is bad" people. We don't vaccinate against small pox because chicken pox was so common that it protected naturally. Now we have started vaccinating against chicken pox, small pox is becoming a big risk because of the vaccinator push rather than because of the anti-vaccination group. This is basically a group of people that want a level of vaccination against small pox that you can't give with a needle but only with a full on chicken pox infection.
You're thinking of cow pox, not chicken pox, they won't protect you from anything except chicken pox, though it can result in shingles. So the vaccination is better. Plus smallpox was effectively wiped out anyway.
That's the problem... people keep saying that small pox is wiped out. But already we've had two or three recent, but thankfully limited, outbreaks caused by the gaps left by not having chicken pox.
@scottalanmiller That's why I said effectively
Cow pox might do the same thing, but it is definitely chicken pox that displaced small pox in the New World by having pretty much ubiquitous infections while creating the same immunities.
The new vaccines are increasing the risk of shingles as well, which really sucks, but not too much (risk, not sucks.)
Chicken pox is completely unrelated and provides no immunity to small pox, it can't "displace" it. Small pox vaccinations had been common since the late 19th century, especially in the western world, that's why there weren't that many outbreaks, not because of chicken pox, because if that were the case, there never would've been small pox outbreaks in the west in the first place where chicken pox has always been prevalent.
No small pox vaccinations here.
Not any more, that doesn't mean there weren't when small pox was a problem. So if it ever gets out again, then you're all definitely screwed. I was vaccinated against it thanks to lagging government policy and being just old enough, but hell it may have worn off.
The US had routine small pox vaccines for children until 1972, but not chicken pox.
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@tonyshowoff said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@tonyshowoff said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@tonyshowoff said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@DustinB3403 said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@tonyshowoff said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@gjacobse said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@thwr said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@gjacobse said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
Stepping back to some fundamental items:
-
Generating Power using combustion
** Makes noise and would draws attention.
** Requires Fuel of some kind. Petrol products 'expire' and are limited in supply.
** Requires Fuel storage - which can be a hazard and liability, and difficult to relocate. -
Generating Power using Solar
** Requires space for panels.
** Has to be 'banked' for poor solar exposure days (clouds, darkness)
** Has to be converted to run AC devices
You can generate fuel to run a generator, but it is a process - needs time, resources, and space.
There are other ways of generating electricity, using steam power; either solar based or fuel based - fuel being petrol or biomass... again - needs space and generates some noise.
Keep in mind that solar panels (photovoltaic cells) will degrade over time, same is true for the batteries. They will degrade even faster. While solar panels are OK for like 20 or 30 years, you will need to replace the batteries every 5 to 10 years. Think about your UPS for example. There are technologies that let you store power in a mechanical way, like a flywheel generator, but this may be hard to find.
So something nuclear would be better, IMHO.
Nuclear is better until.... it goes nuclear...
Rather being the dark... They did it in the olden days..
And they died at age 30 even without zombies.
There are some anti-vaccination people determined to return to that.
I say more power to them, I don't need entitled people taking up the space I want. Let them die from SARS or Small Pox or anything else. Time and again there have been repeated studies that show and prove that vaccines don't cause autism etc.
Snopes has numerous posts about it, along with hundreds of other sites.
Listen folks, when you have to go to page 15 of google to read these kinds of thing, take a lot of salt with you!
Actually the small pox risk is created by the vaccers in this case, not the anti-vaccers. There are two distinct movements there that get lumped together. Or three.
There are people simply against vacs. These people are crazy. Polio, for example, heavily depends on vaccinations to protect people.
There there are "vaccination pacing people" who feel that vaccinations are good but how they are done is bad. Almost all doctors that I know are in this camp.
Then there are "chicken pox vaccinations are bad because chicken pox is what protects against small pox and acting like small pox is zero risk is bad" people. We don't vaccinate against small pox because chicken pox was so common that it protected naturally. Now we have started vaccinating against chicken pox, small pox is becoming a big risk because of the vaccinator push rather than because of the anti-vaccination group. This is basically a group of people that want a level of vaccination against small pox that you can't give with a needle but only with a full on chicken pox infection.
You're thinking of cow pox, not chicken pox, they won't protect you from anything except chicken pox, though it can result in shingles. So the vaccination is better. Plus smallpox was effectively wiped out anyway.
That's the problem... people keep saying that small pox is wiped out. But already we've had two or three recent, but thankfully limited, outbreaks caused by the gaps left by not having chicken pox.
@scottalanmiller That's why I said effectively
Cow pox might do the same thing, but it is definitely chicken pox that displaced small pox in the New World by having pretty much ubiquitous infections while creating the same immunities.
The new vaccines are increasing the risk of shingles as well, which really sucks, but not too much (risk, not sucks.)
Chicken pox is completely unrelated and provides no immunity to small pox, it can't "displace" it. Small pox vaccinations had been common since the late 19th century, especially in the western world, that's why there weren't that many outbreaks, not because of chicken pox, because if that were the case, there never would've been small pox outbreaks in the west in the first place where chicken pox has always been prevalent.
No small pox vaccinations here.
Not any more, that doesn't mean there weren't when small pox was a problem. So if it ever gets out again, then you're all definitely screwed. I was vaccinated against it thanks to lagging government policy and being just old enough, but hell it may have worn off.
The US had routine small pox vaccines for children until 1972, but not chicken pox.
Yeah, we all had chicken pox (not the vaccine, just the pox) as kids. It was everywhere. Thankfully, that left us effectively immune to it. It wasn't all that bad.
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This reminds me anyway, I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it. Vaccines are one thing, but without antibiotics it'll be a lot worse. Sure, antibiotics have been overused recently, but imagine a world without them at all.
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You are correct on the cow pox / chicken pox immunity thing. In US schools we were definitely taught thoroughly that chicken pox stopped small pox.
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@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@tonyshowoff said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@tonyshowoff said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@tonyshowoff said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@DustinB3403 said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@tonyshowoff said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@gjacobse said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@thwr said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@gjacobse said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
Stepping back to some fundamental items:
-
Generating Power using combustion
** Makes noise and would draws attention.
** Requires Fuel of some kind. Petrol products 'expire' and are limited in supply.
** Requires Fuel storage - which can be a hazard and liability, and difficult to relocate. -
Generating Power using Solar
** Requires space for panels.
** Has to be 'banked' for poor solar exposure days (clouds, darkness)
** Has to be converted to run AC devices
You can generate fuel to run a generator, but it is a process - needs time, resources, and space.
There are other ways of generating electricity, using steam power; either solar based or fuel based - fuel being petrol or biomass... again - needs space and generates some noise.
Keep in mind that solar panels (photovoltaic cells) will degrade over time, same is true for the batteries. They will degrade even faster. While solar panels are OK for like 20 or 30 years, you will need to replace the batteries every 5 to 10 years. Think about your UPS for example. There are technologies that let you store power in a mechanical way, like a flywheel generator, but this may be hard to find.
So something nuclear would be better, IMHO.
Nuclear is better until.... it goes nuclear...
Rather being the dark... They did it in the olden days..
And they died at age 30 even without zombies.
There are some anti-vaccination people determined to return to that.
I say more power to them, I don't need entitled people taking up the space I want. Let them die from SARS or Small Pox or anything else. Time and again there have been repeated studies that show and prove that vaccines don't cause autism etc.
Snopes has numerous posts about it, along with hundreds of other sites.
Listen folks, when you have to go to page 15 of google to read these kinds of thing, take a lot of salt with you!
Actually the small pox risk is created by the vaccers in this case, not the anti-vaccers. There are two distinct movements there that get lumped together. Or three.
There are people simply against vacs. These people are crazy. Polio, for example, heavily depends on vaccinations to protect people.
There there are "vaccination pacing people" who feel that vaccinations are good but how they are done is bad. Almost all doctors that I know are in this camp.
Then there are "chicken pox vaccinations are bad because chicken pox is what protects against small pox and acting like small pox is zero risk is bad" people. We don't vaccinate against small pox because chicken pox was so common that it protected naturally. Now we have started vaccinating against chicken pox, small pox is becoming a big risk because of the vaccinator push rather than because of the anti-vaccination group. This is basically a group of people that want a level of vaccination against small pox that you can't give with a needle but only with a full on chicken pox infection.
You're thinking of cow pox, not chicken pox, they won't protect you from anything except chicken pox, though it can result in shingles. So the vaccination is better. Plus smallpox was effectively wiped out anyway.
That's the problem... people keep saying that small pox is wiped out. But already we've had two or three recent, but thankfully limited, outbreaks caused by the gaps left by not having chicken pox.
@scottalanmiller That's why I said effectively
Cow pox might do the same thing, but it is definitely chicken pox that displaced small pox in the New World by having pretty much ubiquitous infections while creating the same immunities.
The new vaccines are increasing the risk of shingles as well, which really sucks, but not too much (risk, not sucks.)
Chicken pox is completely unrelated and provides no immunity to small pox, it can't "displace" it. Small pox vaccinations had been common since the late 19th century, especially in the western world, that's why there weren't that many outbreaks, not because of chicken pox, because if that were the case, there never would've been small pox outbreaks in the west in the first place where chicken pox has always been prevalent.
No small pox vaccinations here.
Not any more, that doesn't mean there weren't when small pox was a problem. So if it ever gets out again, then you're all definitely screwed. I was vaccinated against it thanks to lagging government policy and being just old enough, but hell it may have worn off.
The US had routine small pox vaccines for children until 1972, but not chicken pox.
Yeah, we all had chicken pox (not the vaccine, just the pox) as kids. It was everywhere. Thankfully, that left us effectively immune to it. It wasn't all that bad.
Having chicken pox absolutely will not make you immune to small pox. The reason small pox was wiped out in the west was because of routine vaccination, including in the US. So kids had both the small pox vaccine and also caught chicken pox, they have nothing do to do with each other
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@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
You are correct on the cow pox / chicken pox immunity thing. In US schools we were definitely taught thoroughly that chicken pox stopped small pox.
Seriously? Good Lord!
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@tonyshowoff said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
This reminds me anyway, I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it. Vaccines are one thing, but without antibiotics it'll be a lot worse. Sure, antibiotics have been overused recently, but imagine a world without them at all.
We are about to find out it seems as antibiotics are predicted to be useless very soon.
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There are so many things in the states that antibiotics don't work for anymore.
I also know that I am one of the few in my age group who has been vaccinated against small pox, when I was a kid. And I have been tested and I am still fully immune. I am also one of few non military that have had vaccinations for about everything else in the world too. There are so many in the US who will die off quickly if massive diseases tear through here. So many not vaccinated or who have not kept up as adults. So many antibiotics that are ineffective. And very few who know what to use outside of modern medicine to treat even simple things.
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@Minion-Queen said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
There are so many things in the states that antibiotics don't work for anymore.
I also know that I am one of the few in my age group who has been vaccinated against small pox, when I was a kid. And I have been tested and I am still fully immune. I am also one of few non military that have had vaccinations for about everything else in the world too. There are so many in the US who will die off quickly if massive diseases tear through here. So many not vaccinated or who have not kept up as adults. So many antibiotics that are ineffective. And very few who know what to use outside of modern medicine to treat even simple things.
They're finding that vaccinations last much longer than expected. All the old people who got vaccinated against swine flu were still protected over 50 years later, without any booster shots. Agreed on the antibiotic resistance though. That shit is scary.
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The hope is that the old remedies from thousands of years ago will come back. Copper being the key antibiotic material.
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@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
The hope is that the old remedies from thousands of years ago will come back. Copper being the key antibiotic material.
Check this podcast episode:
http://www.radiolab.org/story/best-medicine/They resurrected an antibiotic remedy from viking times and it worked.
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@Nic said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
The hope is that the old remedies from thousands of years ago will come back. Copper being the key antibiotic material.
Check this podcast episode:
http://www.radiolab.org/story/best-medicine/They resurrected an antibiotic remedy from viking times and it worked.
They did one from Egyptian recently too, and it also worked. It led to the discovery that brass door knobs kill almost all bacteria naturally!
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I've seen both of these. Pretty awesome. I am a huge advocate for treating things naturally and love seeing more and more about this.
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So do the "common" brass finish door knobs kill these germs or no?
I would expect these to be fake brass, and only for appearance.
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@DustinB3403 said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
So do the "common" brass finish door knobs kill these germs or no?
I would expect these to be fake brass, and only for appearance.
Yes, common was the thing that they tested.
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That's pretty awesome.
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@scottalanmiller said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
@DustinB3403 said in Walking Dead Plot Holes - How would IT folk survive:
So do the "common" brass finish door knobs kill these germs or no?
I would expect these to be fake brass, and only for appearance.
Yes, common was the thing that they tested.
It's the copper more than the tin/zinc, in fact Egyptians didn't have brass or bronze, only copper, until the Romans invaded then they got the hook up. At any rate, it's why copper pipes in homes are really good, specifically for carrying water. They help cut down on bacteria forming whilst the water is just sitting there.
