Solved Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Problem resolved then.
From now on, I'll happily (giddly) post to the OP that I am having a buttercup conversation about the situation others are in.
I hope the same goes for anything I post here or elsewhere.
LOL - won't you be banned and or moderated for posting links to here in SW?
Honestly I have no idea, @Minion-Queen might have a talking to me on Friday. Ha. But this is a matter of being honest and open, what draws the bots, should draw new users as well.
That's complex. A ton of people, I would hypothesize, are drawn here because we are very technical and we keep it that way. But tons more are drawn to other places because that's not what they want. Tons and tons of people just want a quick answer with sugar coating, want reverse justification for something that they have already done or want people to support whatever that they said so that they can show their boss that "people agree with them." Sadly, that's a popular reasoning, too.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Problem resolved then.
From now on, I'll happily (giddly) post to the OP that I am having a buttercup conversation about the situation others are in.
I hope the same goes for anything I post here or elsewhere.
LOL - won't you be banned and or moderated for posting links to here in SW?
Honestly I have no idea, @Minion-Queen might have a talking to me on Friday. Ha. But this is a matter of being honest and open, what draws the bots, should draw new users as well.
I was talking about Posting links to ML on SW, not SW links on ML.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
By keeping the blunt, though, we also maintain that it is not socially acceptable to not listen. On some other sites, not listening is seen as "cool" or something. Much like a culture of celebrating ignorance. If we start thinking of it being "cool and individualistic" to not listen to industry experience then it becomes acceptable to do reckless things.
So if going to a fully blunt state of mind when replying (like in the above example that @Jstear thinks is fine to have been deleted) doesn't that just ruin the community to have honest and blunt replies deleted?
Does it matter if it starts off blunt or eventually gets there?
I don't think being blunt is fundamentally wrong. When I am in a conversation that might be difficult I make everything into an I statement. It might sound somewhat self centered at first, but when I am talking about how I understand things, and how I would do things, there is less room for the potential of me coming across as attacking.
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@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@thwr said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Yet I don't feel that we've bashed, we've discussed their topics, and how to address the issues / initially configure the issues.
This has been one of the exceptionally few things that bothers me about this forum. For my two cents I think we should keep the cross linking to a bare minimum and for interesting / news topics only. It does not "feel right" most of the time when I read about posts from there.
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
Well, this very community IS IT. Also, ML's NodeBB is a very fast paced system, that's another problem / feature.
To take up some cludges for @DustinB3403, it was not him alone. We're all shaking our heads about all the quiz questions, @Dashrender called it "beating a dead horse", just for example.
It's very fast paced and ruthless - which is I think some of this place's best qualities. Just need to be careful we don't "eat our young" as it were.
Very true. No doubt that the pace is the strength. But boy does it put pressure on new posters. Especially if they are used to a slow platform and have no idea that things are basically instant.
If you are used to communities where responses wait for emails to go out on a schedule, then people respond eventually... this place is SO different.
I can barely tolerate those places anymore. The near instant reply here is darn near chat quality. sometimes it's worse because you can't keep up.
Just as bad, I had to step away to do my day job and now I'm 80 posts behind.
Only 80? Must not have been for long.
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@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Problem resolved then.
From now on, I'll happily (giddly) post to the OP that I am having a buttercup conversation about the situation others are in.
I hope the same goes for anything I post here or elsewhere.
LOL - won't you be banned and or moderated for posting links to here in SW?
Honestly I have no idea, @Minion-Queen might have a talking to me on Friday. Ha. But this is a matter of being honest and open, what draws the bots, should draw new users as well.
I was talking about Posting links to ML on SW, not SW links on ML.
I knew what you meant.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@thwr said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Yet I don't feel that we've bashed, we've discussed their topics, and how to address the issues / initially configure the issues.
This has been one of the exceptionally few things that bothers me about this forum. For my two cents I think we should keep the cross linking to a bare minimum and for interesting / news topics only. It does not "feel right" most of the time when I read about posts from there.
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
Well, this very community IS IT. Also, ML's NodeBB is a very fast paced system, that's another problem / feature.
To take up some cludges for @DustinB3403, it was not him alone. We're all shaking our heads about all the quiz questions, @Dashrender called it "beating a dead horse", just for example.
It's very fast paced and ruthless - which is I think some of this place's best qualities. Just need to be careful we don't "eat our young" as it were.
Very true. No doubt that the pace is the strength. But boy does it put pressure on new posters. Especially if they are used to a slow platform and have no idea that things are basically instant.
If you are used to communities where responses wait for emails to go out on a schedule, then people respond eventually... this place is SO different.
I can barely tolerate those places anymore. The near instant reply here is darn near chat quality. sometimes it's worse because you can't keep up.
Just as bad, I had to step away to do my day job and now I'm 80 posts behind.
Only 80? Must not have been for long.
about 20 mins.
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@Kelly said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
By keeping the blunt, though, we also maintain that it is not socially acceptable to not listen. On some other sites, not listening is seen as "cool" or something. Much like a culture of celebrating ignorance. If we start thinking of it being "cool and individualistic" to not listen to industry experience then it becomes acceptable to do reckless things.
So if going to a fully blunt state of mind when replying (like in the above example that @Jstear thinks is fine to have been deleted) doesn't that just ruin the community to have honest and blunt replies deleted?
Does it matter if it starts off blunt or eventually gets there?
I don't think being blunt is fundamentally wrong. When I am in a conversation that might be difficult I make everything into an I statement. It might sound somewhat self centered at first, but when I am talking about how I understand things, and how I would do things, there is less room for the potential of me coming across as attacking.
It's also super important to remember that blunt is very different than assuming.
Blunt is saying "you've done something risky and I don't see where you added any value." Assuming is "it sounds like you've done something risky." Blunt without assumption works much better.
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@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@thwr said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Yet I don't feel that we've bashed, we've discussed their topics, and how to address the issues / initially configure the issues.
This has been one of the exceptionally few things that bothers me about this forum. For my two cents I think we should keep the cross linking to a bare minimum and for interesting / news topics only. It does not "feel right" most of the time when I read about posts from there.
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
Well, this very community IS IT. Also, ML's NodeBB is a very fast paced system, that's another problem / feature.
To take up some cludges for @DustinB3403, it was not him alone. We're all shaking our heads about all the quiz questions, @Dashrender called it "beating a dead horse", just for example.
It's very fast paced and ruthless - which is I think some of this place's best qualities. Just need to be careful we don't "eat our young" as it were.
Very true. No doubt that the pace is the strength. But boy does it put pressure on new posters. Especially if they are used to a slow platform and have no idea that things are basically instant.
If you are used to communities where responses wait for emails to go out on a schedule, then people respond eventually... this place is SO different.
I can barely tolerate those places anymore. The near instant reply here is darn near chat quality. sometimes it's worse because you can't keep up.
Just as bad, I had to step away to do my day job and now I'm 80 posts behind.
Only 80? Must not have been for long.
about 20 mins.
Kind of a slow day.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Why must a conversation be so political correct (buttercup approached) if it is clearly a jackass conversation.
Two reasons. One, we should always keep it professional. And two, keeping it professional adds more weight to the point.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Why must a conversation be so political correct (buttercup approached) if it is clearly a jackass conversation.
Two reasons. One, we should always keep it professional. And two, keeping it professional adds more weight to the point.
OKAY, so lets go back a few months (I've already mentioned it in this thread, but no response yet).
The guy who built a really expensive IPOD on Spiceworks, with tons of pictures etc, was completely ashamed about it around page 2. The topic started of with a buttercup approach. The OP devolved it into a topic where the only way to respond was to call it for what it was.
Do you recall the topic from a few months back?
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Why must a conversation be so political correct (buttercup approached) if it is clearly a jackass conversation.
I don't get involved in those, or I exit them when they take a downward turn. Not worth my time or energy.
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@Kelly said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Why must a conversation be so political correct (buttercup approached) if it is clearly a jackass conversation.
I don't get involved in those, or I exit them when they take a downward turn. Not worth my time or energy.
And what if you end up working for this place? You nor I know where they are, and hopefully the problems are addressed and fixed rather than getting dumped onto the next person in the commanders chair.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Kelly said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Why must a conversation be so political correct (buttercup approached) if it is clearly a jackass conversation.
I don't get involved in those, or I exit them when they take a downward turn. Not worth my time or energy.
And what if you end up working for this place? You nor I know where they are, and hopefully the problems are addressed and fixed rather than getting dumped onto the next person in the commanders chair.
Then it will be my problem when I start working there. I can't fix everyone, and some people aren't interested in being fixed.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Kelly said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Why must a conversation be so political correct (buttercup approached) if it is clearly a jackass conversation.
I don't get involved in those, or I exit them when they take a downward turn. Not worth my time or energy.!
And what if you end up working for this place? You nor I know where they are, and hopefully the problems are addressed and fixed rather than getting dumped onto the next person in the commanders chair.
If you end up working there, I guess either you know things are going to change, or you should be looking for another job ASAP.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Kelly said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Why must a conversation be so political correct (buttercup approached) if it is clearly a jackass conversation.
I don't get involved in those, or I exit them when they take a downward turn. Not worth my time or energy.
And what if you end up working for this place? You nor I know where they are, and hopefully the problems are addressed and fixed rather than getting dumped onto the next person in the commanders chair.
I was dumped with a broken infrastructure where everything is IPOD. At that point it becomes "My Monkey. My Circus. Get OUT! Let me do my thing."
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Why must a conversation be so political correct (buttercup approached) if it is clearly a jackass conversation.
Two reasons. One, we should always keep it professional. And two, keeping it professional adds more weight to the point.
OKAY, so lets go back a few months (I've already mentioned it in this thread, but no response yet).
The guy who built a really expensive IPOD on Spiceworks, with tons of pictures etc, was completely ashamed about it around page 2. The topic started of with a buttercup approach. The OP devolved it into a topic where the only way to respond was to call it for what it was.
Do you recall the topic from a few months back?
Sounds familiar. That one was fine. And I think it was on SW for deleting it to hide the shame from future posters.
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@Kelly said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Kelly said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Why must a conversation be so political correct (buttercup approached) if it is clearly a jackass conversation.
I don't get involved in those, or I exit them when they take a downward turn. Not worth my time or energy.
And what if you end up working for this place? You nor I know where they are, and hopefully the problems are addressed and fixed rather than getting dumped onto the next person in the commanders chair.
Then it will be my problem when I start working there. I can't fix everyone, and some people aren't interested in being fixed.
That is not the mentality that I take with the topics, I approach it as, "Hey..... you really should try to do this instead". Even if people aren't interested in being fixed, them having the knowledge might prod them to fix it.
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@Kelly said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Kelly said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Why must a conversation be so political correct (buttercup approached) if it is clearly a jackass conversation.
I don't get involved in those, or I exit them when they take a downward turn. Not worth my time or energy.
And what if you end up working for this place? You nor I know where they are, and hopefully the problems are addressed and fixed rather than getting dumped onto the next person in the commanders chair.
Then it will be my problem when I start working there. I can't fix everyone, and some people aren't interested in being fixed.
My theory is that I cannot fix them, but I can offer them the info that they and others threading their thread need to know. I don't allow them to get automatic sugar coating and circle jerking congratulations by people who are looking for confirmation that their own mistakes were acceptable or even good. I can't make them see reason, but I can give them the information to self evaluate if they care.
My theory is, I don't care how many "guilty" get hurt as long as the innocent never get passed over for help in the hopes of not hurting someone guilty of not wanting help but just looking for valueless approval.
I don't make the guilty look bad to make them look bad, I do it because I refuse to let someone innocent who wants to learn and do the right thing get screwed because people were playing this game of circular self congratulations.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Kelly said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Kelly said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Why must a conversation be so political correct (buttercup approached) if it is clearly a jackass conversation.
I don't get involved in those, or I exit them when they take a downward turn. Not worth my time or energy.
And what if you end up working for this place? You nor I know where they are, and hopefully the problems are addressed and fixed rather than getting dumped onto the next person in the commanders chair.
Then it will be my problem when I start working there. I can't fix everyone, and some people aren't interested in being fixed.
That is not the mentality that I take with the topics, I approach it as, "Hey..... you really should try to do this instead". Even if people aren't interested in being fixed, them having the knowledge might prod them to fix it.
My comment was in the context of your "jackass conversation" comment. When they hit that point, or look like they're going to start there I walk away. In general, I try to suggest ways of doing things better when people ask and I know. If it looks like they're just trying to get validation for poor decisions and not actually wanting input then I drop it.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Kelly said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Kelly said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Why must a conversation be so political correct (buttercup approached) if it is clearly a jackass conversation.
I don't get involved in those, or I exit them when they take a downward turn. Not worth my time or energy.
And what if you end up working for this place? You nor I know where they are, and hopefully the problems are addressed and fixed rather than getting dumped onto the next person in the commanders chair.
Then it will be my problem when I start working there. I can't fix everyone, and some people aren't interested in being fixed.
That is not the mentality that I take with the topics, I approach it as, "Hey..... you really should try to do this instead". Even if people aren't interested in being fixed, them having the knowledge might prod them to fix it.
It's VERY important that the right course of action might not be to change anything. In the example of an IPOD, choosing the IPOD is rarely the right choice but replacing one that is already there is not likely the best choice either (we have to make some pretty huge assumptions for that to be true.)
What's important is for the OP to understand, if it is true, that their actions were a mistake and a post mortem shows bad decision making processes. This allows them to correct their own thinking or their company's processes for next time. And it lets others reading along learn from their mistakes instead of learning their mistakes.
