Microsoft Send
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@Dashrender said:
I know of no hospital or clinic, etc that uses any type of secure voice communication,
I've never dealt with one that was giving out patient data over the phone though, nor having worked in hospitals (big ones) for decades, have I ever dealt with one that actually took security or HIPAA seriously. That hospitals violate both the terms and the spirit of the regulation is what I would expect.
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@Dashrender said:
In the first option, patient talking to medical personal, the medical facility could require that a statement is made and accepted by the patient that this line is insecure and that they accept the risks of discussing medical issues over it and that it may be eavesdropped on, then assuming the patient accepts it, continue the conversation.
That might work. I'm not sure if that qualifies or not. If that worked, why not do that for email?
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@Dashrender said:
The same goes for faxes. The auditors haven't ding'ed the audited for using non secure faxing - as faxing is considered a secure communcation (and we can argue that all we want).
Auditors are just there to make money. They don't represent anything official. I've been a HIPAA auditor and I've brought it up. I worked in HIPAA consulting when HIPAA went into effect. Auditors can easily mention things that you won't get in trouble for or can miss things that you will. HIPAA can't be an exact science, it is best effort and common sense and "reasonable security."
I've seen hospitals pass inspections with patient data, on paper, blowing around in the parking lot.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
In the first option, patient talking to medical personal, the medical facility could require that a statement is made and accepted by the patient that this line is insecure and that they accept the risks of discussing medical issues over it and that it may be eavesdropped on, then assuming the patient accepts it, continue the conversation.
That might work. I'm not sure if that qualifies or not. If that worked, why not do that for email?
Because of the management - you'd need an email server that allowed easy management of who could and couldn't be sent PHI, and you still could never use it for provider to provider communications as stated earlier.
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@scottalanmiller said:
I've seen hospitals pass inspections with patient data, on paper, blowing around in the parking lot.
yes, but how did that data get there? most likely a patient dropped it, it wasn't left there by a hospital employee (though it's true that it could have been an employee).
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I know of no hospital or clinic, etc that uses any type of secure voice communication, nor do they use secure faxing. I'm not sure that secure voice would even be possible for the general public.
It's not, but my understanding of HIPAA is only that if it can't be secured that you can't use it, not that the lack of end user security allowed you to bypass the need for security. End user email can't be secured either in the same way. Same with texting. So any general law about security would curtail the use of all three the same.
End user email can be sorta secured though the use of a portal. This is how all email end user email is done today. We post something into our EHR webportal, the patient receives an email that there is something for them to view on the portal - assuming they care, they go there, log in and look at it.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I know of no hospital or clinic, etc that uses any type of secure voice communication,
I've never dealt with one that was giving out patient data over the phone though, nor having worked in hospitals (big ones) for decades, have I ever dealt with one that actually took security or HIPAA seriously. That hospitals violate both the terms and the spirit of the regulation is what I would expect.
Really? You've never heard a clinical person give test results over the phone? We give out negative (i.e. you are fine) type results almost every min of the day via the phone. Positive results, depending on the severity, we might call you in for that.
Drs will give all kinds of information about patient care both to patients and other doctors over the phone - again I hear this daily.
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@Dashrender said:
Really? You've never heard a clinical person give test results over the phone? We give out negative (i.e. you are fine) type results almost every min of the day via the phone.
No, but I guess, where would I really? If I could hear them it would be an obvious HIPAA breach and we never get medical news.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Really? You've never heard a clinical person give test results over the phone? We give out negative (i.e. you are fine) type results almost every min of the day via the phone.
No, but I guess, where would I really? If I could hear them it would be an obvious HIPAA breach and we never get medical news.
If you're working at a hospital - how could you not? I've been in ORs and heard doctors talking to someone one the phone giving full names and diagnosis. Here our phone triage area has several desks/phones - people calling in looking for answer, anyone who walks by (granted it's in a non public area, so the public wouldn't be walking by, but contractors definitely could be) can hear what they are talking about a if the nurse confirms the name, etc the person walking by will know who they are talking to as well.
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@Dashrender said:
If you're working at a hospital - how could you not?
Most of a hospital does not have doctors talking to patients in it. That's just the public facing part, for the most part. Hospitals are huge things.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
If you're working at a hospital - how could you not?
Most of a hospital does not have doctors talking to patients in it. That's just the public facing part, for the most part. Hospitals are huge things.
Sure, but you said you were working for a hospital, so I would assume you to be in the bowels of the hospital where the Drs and medical staff are, unless you only spent most of your time in the DC, in which case I'll just back away..
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
If you're working at a hospital - how could you not?
Most of a hospital does not have doctors talking to patients in it. That's just the public facing part, for the most part. Hospitals are huge things.
Sure, but you said you were working for a hospital, so I would assume you to be in the bowels of the hospital where the Drs and medical staff are, unless you only spent most of your time in the DC, in which case I'll just back away..
Neither. I worked in facilities primarily. The real bowels. In the morgue, in the waste treatment, in the shipping, in the offices, etc.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
If you're working at a hospital - how could you not?
Most of a hospital does not have doctors talking to patients in it. That's just the public facing part, for the most part. Hospitals are huge things.
Sure, but you said you were working for a hospital, so I would assume you to be in the bowels of the hospital where the Drs and medical staff are, unless you only spent most of your time in the DC, in which case I'll just back away..
Neither. I worked in facilities primarily. The real bowels. In the morgue, in the waste treatment, in the shipping, in the offices, etc.
point still stands - try visiting the provider working spaces.. they really don't care who's around they are in general just blathering on about this patient or that.. and the staff are even worse.
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@Dashrender said:
point still stands - try visiting the provider working spaces.. they really don't care who's around they are in general just blathering on about this patient or that.. and the staff are even worse.
They don't let the doctors into the bowels of the hospitals. Well they do, but the doctors don't go there regardless. Just the people who run the hospitals.
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