O365: differences between direct purchase and via a partner
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My supplier has confirmed they are in the partner network, so no issues having them as both our O365 reseller and our O365 partner. So I think I'm good to go. There are hidden benefits to pushing billing through our MSP rather than through Microsoft - I would basically be doing them a favour and can expect a favour in return. I'm not sure there are any explicit benefits though.
Next question:
I'm not moving e-mail over until next year, so will still be using on-premise Exchange. Is there any issue with specifying our domain (ourdomain.com) within our O365 account now. It won't effect external e-mail, as we won't be changing our MX records, but will it cause any issues. For example, will internal e-mail within O365 not reach our external Exchange server, thus causing us a problem?
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@Carnival-Boy said:
My supplier has confirmed they are in the partner network, so no issues having them as both our O365 reseller and our O365 partner. So I think I'm good to go. There are hidden benefits to pushing billing through our MSP rather than through Microsoft - I would basically be doing them a favour and can expect a favour in return. I'm not sure there are any explicit benefits though.
That shouldn't be a specific benefit to that model. Going through a non-reseller partner is still doing them a favour and the entire setup of the partner model is that you do them the favour of selecting them as the partner and they do you the favour of getting upgraded Microsoft services (if they are premier) and providing their own services. That you use a reseller as well or that you pay them instead of Microsoft doesn't change any of that. It is just that they mark up before they bill you instead of Microsoft paying them afterwards.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
I'm not moving e-mail over until next year, so will still be using on-premise Exchange. Is there any issue with specifying our domain (ourdomain.com) within our O365 account now. It won't effect external e-mail, as we won't be changing our MX records, but will it cause any issues. For example, will internal e-mail within O365 not reach our external Exchange server, thus causing us a problem?
No, only changing the MX records changes anything external. Otherwise people all over the world could disrupt your email by creating local email systems with your domain name in them.
But obviously anything you do inside O365 will be broken as that will all talk to the local O365 Exchange server for your domain and email will go there and never look at your MX record. So yes, for internal email it is a problem.
Why are you not moving email right away? Why pay for and run two email systems? Once you've paid for O365, why not get full use of it?
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@scottalanmiller said:
No, only changing the MX records changes anything external. Otherwise people all over the world could disrupt your email by creating local email systems with your domain name in them.
I know.
But obviously anything you do inside O365 will be broken as that will all talk to the local O365 Exchange server for your domain and email will go there and never look at your MX record. So yes, for internal email it is a problem.
I know. My question is what problems will this cause. To answer that I should probably explain why I'm getting O365 licences now when I'm not planning on moving e-mail straight away. It is purely and simply because we need new Office 2013 desktop licences and rather than buy retail licences or open licences, it makes economic sense to buy O365 subscriptions. However, there will be other services that I'm likely to want to use - specifically Sharepoint/Onedrive
Why are you not moving email right away? Why pay for and run two email systems? Once you've paid for O365, why not get full use of it?
Because we will only be buying a handful of subscriptions initially.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Going through a non-reseller partner is still doing them a favour and the entire setup of the partner model is that you do them the favour of selecting them as the partner and they do you the favour of getting upgraded Microsoft services (if they are premier) and providing their own services. That you use a reseller as well or that you pay them instead of Microsoft doesn't change any of that. It is just that they mark up before they bill you instead of Microsoft paying them afterwards.
They get double the benefit - one benefit as a partner and one as a reseller. I think it's a win win for them and me. I can't see any disadvantages, other than the one I mentioned initially which is that there will be a delay to adding a new subscription as they have to process the open licence, which I understand can take 24 hours or so.
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@Carnival-Boy said
They get double the benefit - one benefit as a partner and one as a reseller
Not with an Open License. They Dont get any benefit from you adding them as the partner until you renew and pay directly through microsoft with them listed on your account. The fees are only paid to the partner if it's paid direct through microsoft.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
The fees are only paid to the partner if it's paid direct through microsoft.
Oh. Why is that? So I could put NTG as my partner, for example, but they wouldn't get paid, and thus wouldn't help me. Seems a dumb-ass way of working.
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@scottalanmiller said:
For partner, yes. But it sounds like he's not looking at partners, only volume licenses via resellers, which are different than partners.
Not exactly. Microsoft call them "reseller partners" as opposed to "advisor partners". So both are partners in Microsoft's eyes. And in most cases, a company will be both a reseller partner and an advisor partner, and it comes down to how individual clients wish to licence the software as to whether they engage them as a reseller or as an advisor. They can be a reseller partner and an advisor partner for the same client, although as @thecreativeone91 points out, they will only get paid once (when acting as a reseller partner).
As always, Microsoft licencing is giving me a cracking headache
Next question: under Open Licence, is it possible to upgrade from a Business Plan to an Enterprise Plan, in the same way that you can if you buy direct from MS?
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
The fees are only paid to the partner if it's paid direct through microsoft.
Oh. Why is that? So I could put NTG as my partner, for example, but they wouldn't get paid, and thus wouldn't help me. Seems a dumb-ass way of working.
Only because you go through a reseller and the "partner" portion is stripped out. If you did the normal partner (adviser) method you can switch partners and the pay switches so that you can move between them.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Going through a non-reseller partner is still doing them a favour and the entire setup of the partner model is that you do them the favour of selecting them as the partner and they do you the favour of getting upgraded Microsoft services (if they are premier) and providing their own services. That you use a reseller as well or that you pay them instead of Microsoft doesn't change any of that. It is just that they mark up before they bill you instead of Microsoft paying them afterwards.
They get double the benefit - one benefit as a partner and one as a reseller. I think it's a win win for them and me. I can't see any disadvantages, other than the one I mentioned initially which is that there will be a delay to adding a new subscription as they have to process the open licence, which I understand can take 24 hours or so.
I doubt that they get paid twice. Disadvantage is lock in, with the normal method you can freely move to another partner and get the advantages of doing so.
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They don't get paid twice as @thecreativeone91 said earlier and I've since confirmed. Vendor lock in is a concern, though it is only for 12 months.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
They don't get paid twice as @thecreativeone91 said earlier and I've since confirmed. Vendor lock in is a concern, though it is only for 12 months.
Yup, and presumably you get a lower price to make up for the 12 month lock in.
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No. I think I should though.
Having slept on this I can no longer see any reason I would want to go down the Open Licence route. Mainly because of @thecreativeone91 letting me know that advisors don't get paid by Microsoft under it (thanks for that @thecreativeone91).
A small business may prefer Open Licence for no other reason than Microsoft will not invoice on account below a set monthly spend which I believe is around $500. So if you spend less than $500 a month you are forced to pay by credit card. But above that level I don't see a massive difference between receiving a Microsoft invoice versus a reseller invoice.
By using Open Licence you are adding an additional overhead as you have to manage your licences through the Volume Licensing Service Center - always a joy! Then you still have to additionally manage everything through the O365 portal. So you have two portals. I'm not clear on how flexible open licenses are either. One of the main benefits of O365 is it's flexibility and I wouldn't want to hamper that by introducing old skool licencing concepts like Open Licences.
My suspicion is that this is just a massive compromise Microsoft has agreed with it's distributors, who I presume have been severely out of pocket under O365, with no real thought as to how this might benefit end users.
For that reason, I'm out.
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Another key point is that whilst many resellers may also be advisors, so you get support through them regardless of the model, not all are. If, for example, I wanted to use NTG as an advisor I couldn't, since they are not a reseller, so there is no Open Licence model where they can get paid for advising me. I would be limiting my choice of advisor to those that also act as resellers, which not all do.
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OK. Next question:
What does a partner of record do exactly? What should be my expectations of a good partner?
My MSP says they would charge us for all support regardless, so it makes no difference whether we use them as a reseller or as an advisor. I'm paying them for support under both models. Am I right in thinking a partner advisor is really only there to advise on what subscriptions to purchase? Or do some partners provide a certain level of "free" support above and beyond that, and only charge consultancy fees for work that is above a certain level - e.g. migrations.
Do you only have a partner of record so that your consultant can access your portal to carry out work that you are paying them for separately? It seems to me that they are getting paid twice under that arrangement - once by me and once by Microsoft. Or have I misunderstood?
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What an MSP charges or doesn't charge if you are buying through their partner ID for O365 is up to them. Say you come to NTG you want 20 licenses of E3. NTG does get a little kick back, as it were, from MS on that which is a bit less than 10%. So we really do not make money on setting you up with all of this. But we are able to build our reputation with MS and get better and better points of contact to better serve our customers. You also will never pay NTG for your licenses the invoicing is done directly by MS themselves.
Do you want NTG to help you setup the accounts and do the email migration from your current model to O365? Well we would charge for that. Do you want someone to ask a couple quick questions of on using the admin panel. NO we do not charge for that. Can we help you find a discount on getting some money back on migration services (when/if they are available) yes. Are we always here to be the buffer between you and MS support, yes. Do we have direct access to someone in the USA for account management and technical support, yes. Are we generally faster than using MS support, YES and yes we know lots because we use the product ourselves and have done 100's of massive migrations in the last year.
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@Minion-Queen said:
What an MSP charges or doesn't charge if you are buying through their partner ID for O365 is up to them.
Sure. I'm just after real world examples, so I can set my expectations. I imagine we'll be paying around $10k a year, so that's around $1k to the partner. Not a massive amount, but enough to expect a bit of help here and there, I'd have thought.
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I agree. Lots of MSP's forget that a client needs to be treated more like a Partner and less like a cash cow. Of course we are doing business so some money needs to be made but it's not just about the $$ coming from the client. Being able to add licenses to your over all Microsoft Partner ID makes what MS gives back to the MSP better and better as you grow. The more you are doing and getting from your own clients the better and better benefits you get from your MS Partnership.
Hint hint hint we wont charge you for here and there support (unless its HOURS of work).
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I can attest to what Danielle is saying. I bought my O365 account through NTG and they have helped me with the few issues I've run into along the way. 5 mins here, 10 there no big deal!
