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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
So when you look at it from an IT / business perspective, it all makes sense.
Looking at it from a business perspective also means realizing different businesses exist in different industries and have different goals and requirements. So rather than you saying, yes this solution is the best solution (PC gaming) for 100% of all businesses in the world, I take a different approach.
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
way too costly and we don't want the lower quality
Not if you spend more money on worse hardware than a console. Depends on what/when you buy, what ecosystem, what your existing gaming investments and portfolio looks like, etc. Like that you have 2000 steam games... that's never something I ever have to worry about lol. IMO it's kind of ridiculous, but I am sure there are a few of you out there. I mean, some have petabytes of movies, others music, and in your case games. To each their own I say.
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
And that's just the tip of the iceberg... any old console I own just turns into worthless crap that you put in a box or throw away. What the heck do you do with last gen consoles?
But gaming PCs can be moved into "secondary gaming rigs for less demanding games" that handle new games for many years after you want to replace them as your main rig.
My kids still enjoy a first gen Nintendo Wii in 2021!
You can do the same with an old console as you do with an old gaming PC.
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
And even after that, because of how much power they tend to have, they can always be redeployed for work or other tasks because they are PCs!
And all of that is in addition to them being useful as desktops whenever you need them to be as well.At that point, you're no longer comparing apples to apples.
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@Obsolesce said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
The PS4 Pro XBox One uses a Jaguar processor, replaced in 2014.
Oh, I thought gameplay mostly used the GPU. Oh wait, it does!
Yeah, and it has more GPU power, too!
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@stacksofplates said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
XBox One uses a Jaguar processor, replaced in 2014
Xbox one was release in 2013. One X which is now $350 uses a 6 teraflop Scorpio card.
Right, which is better than mine, but only a little bit, and JUST came out.
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@stacksofplates said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
XBox One uses a Jaguar processor, replaced in 2014
Xbox one was release in 2013. One X which is now $350 uses a 6 teraflop Scorpio card.
Right, which is better than mine, but only a little bit, and JUST came out.
ONe X has been out for 3-4 years. Series X is new.
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@Obsolesce said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Not only is it old and slow, it's only four cores in those devices. This is double the cores, each vastly higher performance.
Not what i'm seeing here, but again, don't think it really matters at all so much for playing those games.
That's FOUR CPU cores, and FOUR GPU cores. That's an AMD Axx style processor. You are using "gamer info", not actual tech specs. You need to look up the devices and not use the fake advertising info. That's like the Dreamcast or whatever lying about being a 128bit CPU, as if such a thing even exists. Game systems lie up and down because console buyers aren't very knowledgeable most of the time and when they are, they overlook it as being dumbed down for consumers.
But if you want a comparison, you have to compare actual specs, not the fake ones. If my PC listed cores in the same way it'd be 44 to the 8. Silly right? That's why you use real data.
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@Obsolesce said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Then there is the GPU. While the PS4 Pro has a decent GPU, it's still 20% less than this one. There's a reason that this GPU alone costs so much today - it's still above all those consoles in power.
Right, but again, when you spent your money, what you're comparing it against is still 3+ years older so of course. A lot depends on when you buy what you buy.
Of course, but one of the great things about PC gaming is that it's an "all the time" thing, it's effectively steady state. It isn't a "wait eight years for the console to not be a horrible disappointment" thing where you have to give up most of a decade in waiting in order to potentially get a good deal somewhere off in the future.
I'm not saying the consoles are pointless, they can be nice for a lot of reasons. Easy to use, often small, work more reliably. But if you are buying any number of games, cost is not one of their advantages.
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@stacksofplates said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Then there is the GPU. While the PS4 Pro has a decent GPU, it's still 20% less than this one. There's a reason that this GPU alone costs so much today - it's still above all those consoles in power.
Then there is RAM, 16GB + 4GB instead of 8GB total. Pretty big gap there.One X has 12 GB of RAM and doesn't have to run Windows. The GPU in the One X is comparable to the RX580 (higher shaders but lower core clock).
Oh yeah, the really new stuff is definitely going to give it a run for the money in hardware for sure.
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@stacksofplates said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Then there is the GPU. While the PS4 Pro has a decent GPU, it's still 20% less than this one. There's a reason that this GPU alone costs so much today - it's still above all those consoles in power.
Then there is RAM, 16GB + 4GB instead of 8GB total. Pretty big gap there.One X has 12 GB of RAM and doesn't have to run Windows. The GPU in the One X is comparable to the RX580 (higher shaders but lower core clock).
Oh yeah, the really new stuff is definitely going to give it a run for the money in hardware for sure.
It's not really new. It's the One X which has been out for a few years. The Series X is the newest and is still only around $500.
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@Obsolesce said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
But ALL of that is background noise. The real factor is the games. I have an existing library, that is constantly growing, of over 2,000 games.
That's.... wow, yeah. For me, I probably wouldn't be interested in a single one of those games, like ever! But yes I see your point there, a 2000 game library that's some serious investment and definitely justifies sticking strictly to PC gaming for that specific case. That's very subjective, when you start getting in to game specifics, because like I said, depends on your taste of games. I personally probably would not be interested in playing any of those even if given to me for free, but the games I chose to play on console, and have available to me there, I do, but you likely wouldn't.
There's really not very much on console that you can't get on the PC. There's some, to be sure, and vice versa. I hate that any platform has exclusives, but they all do. But I don't know any category of game that the PC doesn't have good representation in.
It's not just the investment in the past, that's obviously significant, but the investment for the future as well. Like the best price you can get on a game for the Switch (which is crazy bad specs) is like $50 and the same game on Steam is like $8 and the Steam/PC version is way higher graphics, and way more multiplayer options. To get the same on the switch would be like an extra $400 on top of the game and console you already have, all to match what you get for $8 on the PC! It can be crazy differences for games that are on both.
Grand Theft Auto V is another great example. On PC it was on sale for free (yes, free.) Consoles might have it cheap, but I doubt anyone gave a digital download for free.
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@Obsolesce said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
way too costly and we don't want the lower quality
Not if you spend more money on worse hardware than a console. Depends on what/when you buy, what ecosystem, what your existing gaming investments and portfolio looks like, etc. Like that you have 2000 steam games... that's never something I ever have to worry about lol. IMO it's kind of ridiculous, but I am sure there are a few of you out there. I mean, some have petabytes of movies, others music, and in your case games. To each their own I say.
Yeah, but even like... ten to fifteen games. Heck, my nephew got a Nintendo Switch for Xmas. With just six games, his Switch was break even with his gaming PC (he has both.) With a seventh game, the PC would pull ahead. And, while subjective, the games he got on the Switch are trainwrecks of bad design and low quality gameplay with horrible controllers and a terrible experience.
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@Obsolesce said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
And even after that, because of how much power they tend to have, they can always be redeployed for work or other tasks because they are PCs!
And all of that is in addition to them being useful as desktops whenever you need them to be as well.At that point, you're no longer comparing apples to apples.
Because they aren't. Apples to apples, I think the PC blows the doors of consoles in value if you plan to buy more than say a dozen games over the lifespan.
Then, once it's already way ahead on price and quality, it offers a world of more options that the consoles just don't.
One of the reasons I want a gaming PC is because I don't want to be limited to the apple of consoles, I want an the ecosystem of advantages of the PC as well. It's a win on top of a win.
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Obsolesce said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
But ALL of that is background noise. The real factor is the games. I have an existing library, that is constantly growing, of over 2,000 games.
That's.... wow, yeah. For me, I probably wouldn't be interested in a single one of those games, like ever! But yes I see your point there, a 2000 game library that's some serious investment and definitely justifies sticking strictly to PC gaming for that specific case. That's very subjective, when you start getting in to game specifics, because like I said, depends on your taste of games. I personally probably would not be interested in playing any of those even if given to me for free, but the games I chose to play on console, and have available to me there, I do, but you likely wouldn't.
There's really not very much on console that you can't get on the PC. There's some, to be sure, and vice versa. I hate that any platform has exclusives, but they all do. But I don't know any category of game that the PC doesn't have good representation in.
It's not just the investment in the past, that's obviously significant, but the investment for the future as well. Like the best price you can get on a game for the Switch (which is crazy bad specs) is like $50 and the same game on Steam is like $8 and the Steam/PC version is way higher graphics, and way more multiplayer options. To get the same on the switch would be like an extra $400 on top of the game and console you already have, all to match what you get for $8 on the PC! It can be crazy differences for games that are on both.
Grand Theft Auto V is another great example. On PC it was on sale for free (yes, free.) Consoles might have it cheap, but I doubt anyone gave a digital download for free.
I don't see why you need to buy new gaming PCs for these 2000 crappy steam games. That's like saying I need to upgrade my Xbox to play my original Xbox library. You don't. The point of upgrading is to play new games that require newer hardware to look and play better than your old games, or to keep current with other features you like.
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@stacksofplates said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@stacksofplates said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
XBox One uses a Jaguar processor, replaced in 2014
Xbox one was release in 2013. One X which is now $350 uses a 6 teraflop Scorpio card.
Right, which is better than mine, but only a little bit, and JUST came out.
ONe X has been out for 3-4 years. Series X is new.
OIC. Another reason I dislike consoles. I literally can't tell what products are out. So current Xbox is called "Series" instead of "1" which replaced "360"?
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@Obsolesce said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
I don't see why you need to buy new gaming PCs for these 2000 crappy steam games.
Wow, so you define PC gaming as crappy just because it's PC? Talk about some bias.
I've played consoles, you aren't fooling me.
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Obsolesce said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
I don't see why you need to buy new gaming PCs for these 2000 crappy steam games.
Wow, so you define PC gaming as crappy just because it's PC? Talk about some bias.
I've played consoles, you aren't fooling me.
Because if I had to pick 2000 steam games, I can kinda guess their quality.
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@Obsolesce said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
The point of upgrading is to play new games that require newer hardware to look and play better than your old games, or to keep current with other features you like.
Right, and I buy a few new games a week. Every week. And the new hardware let's me play more and better games as well as improving the old ones.
One of the things about PC games is that they generally provide for many years of hardware improvements. So you can keep upgrading for years and years and the same games keep getting better. Generally consoles lack this big feature. But even a lot of my old 2D games get new scaling or other features. Let alone more processor intensive games.
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@Obsolesce said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Obsolesce said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
I don't see why you need to buy new gaming PCs for these 2000 crappy steam games.
Wow, so you define PC gaming as crappy just because it's PC? Talk about some bias.
I've played consoles, you aren't fooling me.
Because if I had to pick 2000 steam games, I can kinda guess their quality.
Well, I could same the same thing for anything that releases on a console. If it's console only, the dev knew that it wasn't worth showing to real gamers.
Sounds ridiculous, but it makes more sense than your claim. I've SEEN the selection on some consoles, you can't even stand on that leg.
