Staying at your shitty employer is your fault
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@obsolesce said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@dashrender said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@obsolesce said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@dave247 said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@jaredbusch said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@dave247 said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
Where is everyone searching for quality IT job postings these days?
Word of mouth. I've never gotten a good job from a random posting.
I suppose the correct answer to myself is a wide net of every combination, including word of mouth, job posting sites like Indeed, Monster, etc, direct job postings on the website of the company, LinkedIn, etc.
I managed to get my first IT job using my state's job network website. I got a call-back from HR and had some awesome back and forth and landed a great gig. My friend and past co-worker got an amazing job from a head-hunter on LinkedIn. Another friend got a job from a company website post...
The last several good jobs I was either offered or have started were directly from LinkedIn, and some of them are $300K to $500K jobs.
How much of that salary is cause of location?
It depends on scale. You won't see that outside the US, not even close. With-in the US, fully remote, and depending on the company, an extremely small percentage if any.
The need to pay that amount to someone living in the midwest who is fully remote is completely different compared to someone who lives in LA/SF/NYC and working fully remote.
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@obsolesce said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
nd some of them are $300K to $500K jobs.
This - has not been a problem I have had to worry with. And I'm okay with that. I got into computer and such in the late 1980s... first job being 1990 with the State using a Green Terminal to the mainframe - it had four sessions - Those were the days..
After thirty years, forgetting more that some of my current co-workers have ever learned, I've never gotten out of being an IT Generalist.. I enjoy being apart of all aspects of the company network... keeps me from being too bored with one subject. That is also a problem with how much things have advanced...
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@dashrender said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@obsolesce said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@dave247 said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@jaredbusch said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@dave247 said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
Where is everyone searching for quality IT job postings these days?
Word of mouth. I've never gotten a good job from a random posting.
I suppose the correct answer to myself is a wide net of every combination, including word of mouth, job posting sites like Indeed, Monster, etc, direct job postings on the website of the company, LinkedIn, etc.
I managed to get my first IT job using my state's job network website. I got a call-back from HR and had some awesome back and forth and landed a great gig. My friend and past co-worker got an amazing job from a head-hunter on LinkedIn. Another friend got a job from a company website post...
The last several good jobs I was either offered or have started were directly from LinkedIn, and some of them are $300K to $500K jobs.
How much of that salary is cause of location?
The higher paying the job, the more likely its remote and location doesn't matter. Some companies choose to pay more based on remote workers location. However, it's always better to be in tax free state either way
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@obsolesce said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@dave247 said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@jaredbusch said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@dave247 said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
Where is everyone searching for quality IT job postings these days?
Word of mouth. I've never gotten a good job from a random posting.
I suppose the correct answer to myself is a wide net of every combination, including word of mouth, job posting sites like Indeed, Monster, etc, direct job postings on the website of the company, LinkedIn, etc.
I managed to get my first IT job using my state's job network website. I got a call-back from HR and had some awesome back and forth and landed a great gig. My friend and past co-worker got an amazing job from a head-hunter on LinkedIn. Another friend got a job from a company website post...
The last several good jobs I was either offered or have started were directly from LinkedIn, and some of them are $300K to $500K jobs.
Can I ask what kind of IT jobs those were and the general requirements? That seems a little hard to believe unless you're talking about jobs in the major US technology hubs... but I have limited knowledge and experience in this area.
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@dave247 said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@obsolesce said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@dave247 said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@jaredbusch said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@dave247 said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
Where is everyone searching for quality IT job postings these days?
Word of mouth. I've never gotten a good job from a random posting.
I suppose the correct answer to myself is a wide net of every combination, including word of mouth, job posting sites like Indeed, Monster, etc, direct job postings on the website of the company, LinkedIn, etc.
I managed to get my first IT job using my state's job network website. I got a call-back from HR and had some awesome back and forth and landed a great gig. My friend and past co-worker got an amazing job from a head-hunter on LinkedIn. Another friend got a job from a company website post...
The last several good jobs I was either offered or have started were directly from LinkedIn, and some of them are $300K to $500K jobs.
Can I ask what kind of IT jobs those were and the general requirements? That seems a little hard to believe unless you're talking about jobs in the major US technology hubs... but I have limited knowledge and experience in this area.
He's referring to total comp in which you get a base of $150-200k and then have bonuses and stock incentives.
Here's an example of one that recently came across to me. This came via email, but I get most of these through LinkedIn.
'''
I’m the Talent Sourcing Partner for the world’s first API security unicorn
, NoName Security. We just announced our billion-dollar valuation and we’re looking for a Lead Attack Surface Management Architect (or Engineer - title is flexible) who can continue driving us to the next level!Primary responsibilities will be establishing and maintaining a vulnerability and patch management program for all of Noname, working with our incoming AppSec lead to identify and address issues in the core platform, understanding the perimeter and identifying concerns with the perimeter security, and establishing / operating tooling, dashboards, and reporting
Salary will depend on your experience, but to start us off I can tell you our target comp range for this role is $175-200k base + bonus + equity and fantastic benefits including 401K with 4% match and unlimited PTO.
Check out the job details below, and let me know if you’re interested in learning more, applying, or just asking questions about us!
'''
Hope to hear from you
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@irj said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
He's referring to total comp in which you get a base of $150-200k
Lol - Guess I'm in the wrong LinkedIn circle as I don't get anything in that base range... And I'm okay with that (twitch).
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@gjacobse said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@irj said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
He's referring to total comp in which you get a base of $150-200k
Lol - Guess I'm in the wrong LinkedIn circle as I don't get anything in that base range... And I'm okay with that (twitch).
It's generally based on skillset and experience. 2-3 years cloud experience is super valuable right now. I posted about this in 2019 here.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/19837/you-need-to-get-cloud-certified
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@irj said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@gjacobse said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@irj said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
He's referring to total comp in which you get a base of $150-200k
Lol - Guess I'm in the wrong LinkedIn circle as I don't get anything in that base range... And I'm okay with that (twitch).
It's generally based on skillset and experience. 2-3 years cloud experience is super valuable right now. I posted about this in 2019 here.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/19837/you-need-to-get-cloud-certified
I'm 6 years into IT (network admin, sysadmin, security (generalist)) and have my Security+ and am making $70,000 in Wisconsin right now. Is that low/normal/high?
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@dave247 said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@irj said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@gjacobse said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@irj said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
He's referring to total comp in which you get a base of $150-200k
Lol - Guess I'm in the wrong LinkedIn circle as I don't get anything in that base range... And I'm okay with that (twitch).
It's generally based on skillset and experience. 2-3 years cloud experience is super valuable right now. I posted about this in 2019 here.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/19837/you-need-to-get-cloud-certified
I'm 6 years into IT (network admin, sysadmin, security (generalist)) and have my Security+ and am making $70,000 in Wisconsin right now. Is that low/normal/high?
It seems low, but it depends on industry, size of company, company competitors, and of course good directional leadership in IT.
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@irj said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@dave247 said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@irj said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@gjacobse said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@irj said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
He's referring to total comp in which you get a base of $150-200k
Lol - Guess I'm in the wrong LinkedIn circle as I don't get anything in that base range... And I'm okay with that (twitch).
It's generally based on skillset and experience. 2-3 years cloud experience is super valuable right now. I posted about this in 2019 here.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/19837/you-need-to-get-cloud-certified
I'm 6 years into IT (network admin, sysadmin, security (generalist)) and have my Security+ and am making $70,000 in Wisconsin right now. Is that low/normal/high?
It seems low, but it depends on industry, size of company, company competitors, and of course good directional leadership in IT.
Based on what? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just wondering what you are using for a baseline?
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@irj said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
I'm 6 years into IT (network admin, sysadmin, security (generalist)) and have my Security+ and am making $70,000
You are doing better than a fellow I worked at the state - who was two years from retirement (28 years of service)... By almost $20k... At $70k I think is is more an exception than the rule... Location is a big key here.... Yes - State Employees generally make less...
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@gjacobse said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@irj said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
I'm 6 years into IT (network admin, sysadmin, security (generalist)) and have my Security+ and am making $70,000
You are doing better than a fellow I worked at the state - who was two years from retirement (28 years of service)... By almost $20k... At $70k I think is is more an exception than the rule... Location is a big key here.... Yes - State Employees generally make less...
This is my general belief as well - location is king!
Now - today after Covid, location is a bit less, but I wouldn't say significantly less important, assuming the company moved a position to fully remote.
Living in SF, LA, NYC all cost 2-4 times what it does in Wisconsin.
I've read that west coast companies are now starting to have a new baseline salary for a position, then up it based on where you actually live. So the base might be $80K, but if you live in SF, you get $40K/y more, but live in Wisconsin - you just get 80K.
I have no personal experience in that happening - so no idea if it's true.
And those that are seeing high prices around here on ML - I think most of you live in or near those expensive cities - correct me if I'm wrong.
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@dashrender said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@gjacobse said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@irj said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
I'm 6 years into IT (network admin, sysadmin, security (generalist)) and have my Security+ and am making $70,000
You are doing better than a fellow I worked at the state - who was two years from retirement (28 years of service)... By almost $20k... At $70k I think is is more an exception than the rule... Location is a big key here.... Yes - State Employees generally make less...
This is my general belief as well - location is king!
Now - today after Covid, location is a bit less, but I wouldn't say significantly less important, assuming the company moved a position to fully remote.
Living in SF, LA, NYC all cost 2-4 times what it does in Wisconsin.
I've read that west coast companies are now starting to have a new baseline salary for a position, then up it based on where you actually live. So the base might be $80K, but if you live in SF, you get $40K/y more, but live in Wisconsin - you just get 80K.
I have no personal experience in that happening - so no idea if it's true.
And those that are seeing high prices around here on ML - I think most of you live in or near those expensive cities - correct me if I'm wrong.
I live in a small town in western PA.
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@jaredbusch This. Just got word form a former co-worker their new company is hiring (getting resume together this morning to send over). Current job was same wasn't even posted just got in becasue I knew a coworker. Important to keep networking with fellow associates and former co-workers you never knwo what turns up.
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@dashrender said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
I've read that west coast companies are now starting to have a new baseline salary for a position, then up it based on where you actually live. So the base might be $80K, but if you live in SF, you get $40K/y more, but live in Wisconsin - you just get 80K.
That'll never work. There are ways to live in NYC for super cheap. There are ways to "live" one place but be based in another. Everyone will "move" to expensive locations when deals happen to screw the system. Letting the employees dictate their salaries based on a fungible concept is insane. Makes no sense to the employees, makes even less sense to an employer. If my employees make bad life decisions, why should I provide them a bonus for that?
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@dave247 said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@irj said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@gjacobse said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@irj said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
He's referring to total comp in which you get a base of $150-200k
Lol - Guess I'm in the wrong LinkedIn circle as I don't get anything in that base range... And I'm okay with that (twitch).
It's generally based on skillset and experience. 2-3 years cloud experience is super valuable right now. I posted about this in 2019 here.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/19837/you-need-to-get-cloud-certified
I'm 6 years into IT (network admin, sysadmin, security (generalist)) and have my Security+ and am making $70,000 in Wisconsin right now. Is that low/normal/high?
Very hard to say. We don't know your job role, responsibility, etc. If you did any of those roles specifically, then it is low after four years. But if you are in a generalist role, there's no gauge based on the description. The Sec+ is great to have, but has no direct correlation to salary, not at $70 or higher. Your way past the salary mark where a CompTIA cert is going to really affect salary. Nice to have, feather in the ol' cap. I have it too. But it isn't making me money.
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@scottalanmiller said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@dashrender said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
I've read that west coast companies are now starting to have a new baseline salary for a position, then up it based on where you actually live. So the base might be $80K, but if you live in SF, you get $40K/y more, but live in Wisconsin - you just get 80K.
That'll never work. There are ways to live in NYC for super cheap. There are ways to "live" one place but be based in another. Everyone will "move" to expensive locations when deals happen to screw the system. Letting the employees dictate their salaries based on a fungible concept is insane. Makes no sense to the employees, makes even less sense to an employer. If my employees make bad life decisions, why should I provide them a bonus for that?
This happens with most tech companies. Any I've looked at have paid differently based on where you live. And when covid hit there were reports those that weren't remote already were taking suit and when employees moves their pay changed based on location.
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@dashrender said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@gjacobse said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
@irj said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
I'm 6 years into IT (network admin, sysadmin, security (generalist)) and have my Security+ and am making $70,000
You are doing better than a fellow I worked at the state - who was two years from retirement (28 years of service)... By almost $20k... At $70k I think is is more an exception than the rule... Location is a big key here.... Yes - State Employees generally make less...
This is my general belief as well - location is king!
Now - today after Covid, location is a bit less, but I wouldn't say significantly less important, assuming the company moved a position to fully remote.
Living in SF, LA, NYC all cost 2-4 times what it does in Wisconsin.
I've read that west coast companies are now starting to have a new baseline salary for a position, then up it based on where you actually live. So the base might be $80K, but if you live in SF, you get $40K/y more, but live in Wisconsin - you just get 80K.
I have no personal experience in that happening - so no idea if it's true.
And those that are seeing high prices around here on ML - I think most of you live in or near those expensive cities - correct me if I'm wrong.
Even for remote workers sometimes there are differences depending on location, but some don't discriminate at all on location. Even the ones that does its not 100% more pay for California like in your example.
The best thing to do is confirm salary expectations and your location up front. Then this is never an issue. If you agree to the salary, then what's the problem?
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@irj said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
Even for remote workers sometimes there are differences depending on location
Lots of variation, but the variation is at the employee's discretion. It's not the employer's job to compensate unless the location is of benefit to the employer.
It would be no different than paying employee's more based on the car that they choose to drive. Buy a Mercedes, we give you a raise. Buy a Toyota, your pay stays normal. Be responsible and take public transportation and get a pay cut to add to your woes.
Basically, employer's rewarding unnecessary spending is an insane business tactic. It's not just bad financially, but generally punishes good decision making. An employee living in low cost cities or even villages are likely dealing with fewer business-interrupting problems than employees in big, expensive downtowns.
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@irj said in Staying at your shitty employer is your fault:
The best thing to do is confirm salary expectations and your location up front. Then this is never an issue. If you agree to the salary, then what's the problem?
Salary up front, never worry about location. Either you need them in the office, or you don't. Getting bogged down in location past that point is crazy and not a business process. Any compensation based on location, or even caring about location, is emotional and not business. It's anti-business. It's easy to manipulate and counter productive and all time spent on it is negative to the business.
Obviously if you want to worry about climate, unstable governments, latency for calls... there are general location factors that do affect business. Yet I've seen no business that pays based on location ever consider which locations are good or bad for them.
