VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V
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@Pete-S said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
@NashBrydges said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
They would also require CALs for the appropriate # of users, correct?
I don't think you need CALs for Hyper-V but maybe they are running other services as well?
BTW, this is the latest info from MS (April 2020) on licensing Win 10 VMs:
https://download.microsoft.com/download/9/8/D/98D6A56C-4D79-40F4-8462-DA3ECBA2DC2C/Licensing_Windows_Desktop_OS_for_Virtual_Machines.pdfHe said running Hyper-V as a role instead of standalone, so licensing required for running Hyper-V. CALs, eh, same diff.
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@NashBrydges said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
I'm pretty sure that's problematic in that they are in breach of MS licensing terms (I think). There are no CALs.
Desktop versions of Windows have no CALs, there isn't a CAL that goes with that product. So there is no way for them to have CALs in this scenario.
What they have is VDI and that has its own licensing needs. But CALs don't come into the equation.
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@NashBrydges said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
has setup a Windows 2016 server with Hyper-V role
Now this requires a Windows Server license and a CAL for everyone on the network.
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@Pete-S said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
I don't think you need CALs for Hyper-V but maybe they are running other services as well?
You don't, but you do for Windows Server. And he installed Windows Server + Hyper-V. The Hyper-V role is a red herring in the licensing and CAL discussion. It's the Windows Server component he installed (without needing to) that creates the server licensing problems. If he had installed Hyper-V "correctly" and/or used KVM or Xen, it would completely solve both the licensing and the being out of date problems there.
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@NashBrydges said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
There is no AD of any kind.
This doesn't play in. AD doesn't have any licensing. It is included in Windows Server and has no licenses or requirements of its own. If you can use server, you can use it, if you can't, you can't.
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@NashBrydges said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
If I understand the licensing correctly, in this setup, they would require Windows Software Assurance, Windows VDA subscription, or Windows E3/E5 licenses, do I have that right? They would also require CALs for the appropriate # of users, correct?
Yes, if this is all that the have, they need to license every piece of it because it sounds like it might be as much as 100% pirated right now.
They need some kind of licensing for VDI to handle the desktops, and some kind of license to deal with the fact that they have two copies of each OS - right now it's both a VDI violation and a full on complete piracy violation (he made illegal copies of every desktop) and almost certainly an OEM violation (those desktops must have been OEM copies.) So the entire Windows Desktop situation needs to be licensed.
Then there needs to be licensing for the entire Windows Server infrastructure. The server has to be licensed, and CALs acquire for every user in the company would in any way would gain any benefit or use from any aspect of any service that runs on anything that runs on top of Hyper-V (one of the huge never ending risks of using incorrectly installed Hyper-V). In this scenario, even installing a Linux VM and using it for DHCP means that every device on the network needs a Windows license because at some point, it depends on Windows.
Bottom line, this is so onerous, they should start over and rethink the whole train wreck. Why is any of this there? Just let them remote into their desktops instead and everything is solved and all kinds of money saved and better performance.
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@scottalanmiller said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
@NashBrydges said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
If I understand the licensing correctly, in this setup, they would require Windows Software Assurance, Windows VDA subscription, or Windows E3/E5 licenses, do I have that right? They would also require CALs for the appropriate # of users, correct?
Yes, if this is all that the have, they need to license every piece of it because it sounds like it might be as much as 100% pirated right now.
They need some kind of licensing for VDI to handle the desktops, and some kind of license to deal with the fact that they have two copies of each OS - right now it's both a VDI violation and a full on complete piracy violation (he made illegal copies of every desktop) and almost certainly an OEM violation (those desktops must have been OEM copies.) So the entire Windows Desktop situation needs to be licensed.
Then there needs to be licensing for the entire Windows Server infrastructure. The server has to be licensed, and CALs acquire for every user in the company would in any way would gain any benefit or use from any aspect of any service that runs on anything that runs on top of Hyper-V (one of the huge never ending risks of using incorrectly installed Hyper-V). In this scenario, even installing a Linux VM and using it for DHCP means that every device on the network needs a Windows license because at some point, it depends on Windows.
Bottom line, this is so onerous, they should start over and rethink the whole train wreck. Why is any of this there? Just let them remote into their desktops instead and everything is solved and all kinds of money saved and better performance.
CALs are not required for the Windows Server if it's exclusively used as a host for the Hyper-V role.
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@NashBrydges said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
I met with a prospective client today over video chat (wanted to reduce physical exposure for everyone until we're in a place where onsite visit is necessary) and she walked me through her current setup and what she'd like to do. One thing stood out for me as potentially problematic so wanted to check here to see if someone could point me in the right direction.
Her current IT admin (still employed there...for now) has setup a Windows 2016 server with Hyper-V role. He's the used Disk2VHD to create a disk image of each of their business' 8 PCs and loaded them up on the Windows server to run as virtual desktop. He then uninstalled all of the business software from each of their desktops so they are now essentially running their entire business via those virtual Win10 machines. Each physical desktop is now essentially a client for accessing the users' virtual PCs. Nothing is running on their physical PCs except Windows 10 Pro. All their software is running on their virtual desktops.
I'm pretty sure that's problematic in that they are in breach of MS licensing terms (I think). There are no CALs. They simply use the Remote Desktop client on their physical desktops to access their virtual PCs and it is a 1:1 setup with everyone having their own virtual Win10 PC. There is no AD of any kind.
If I understand the licensing correctly, in this setup, they would require Windows Software Assurance, Windows VDA subscription, or Windows E3/E5 licenses, do I have that right? They would also require CALs for the appropriate # of users, correct?
Yes, Desktop Software Assurance gives virtualization rights for the Windows Desktop OS. Windows Desktop E3.
RDS CALs are also required since they are accessing endpoints via RDP.
The E3 license is not that expensive. It is a subscription licenses so annual.
You could also reach out to a Cloud Service Provider and look into E5 that yields Advanced Threat Protection among other great add-ons.
*All of our clients are on E3 and running Windows 10 Enterprise 64-bit.
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@Obsolesce said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
@NashBrydges said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
If I understand the licensing correctly, in this setup, they would require Windows Software Assurance, Windows VDA subscription, or Windows E3/E5 licenses, do I have that right? They would also require CALs for the appropriate # of users, correct?
Yes, if this is all that the have, they need to license every piece of it because it sounds like it might be as much as 100% pirated right now.
They need some kind of licensing for VDI to handle the desktops, and some kind of license to deal with the fact that they have two copies of each OS - right now it's both a VDI violation and a full on complete piracy violation (he made illegal copies of every desktop) and almost certainly an OEM violation (those desktops must have been OEM copies.) So the entire Windows Desktop situation needs to be licensed.
Then there needs to be licensing for the entire Windows Server infrastructure. The server has to be licensed, and CALs acquire for every user in the company would in any way would gain any benefit or use from any aspect of any service that runs on anything that runs on top of Hyper-V (one of the huge never ending risks of using incorrectly installed Hyper-V). In this scenario, even installing a Linux VM and using it for DHCP means that every device on the network needs a Windows license because at some point, it depends on Windows.
Bottom line, this is so onerous, they should start over and rethink the whole train wreck. Why is any of this there? Just let them remote into their desktops instead and everything is solved and all kinds of money saved and better performance.
CALs are not required for the Windows Server if it's exclusively used as a host for the Hyper-V role.
Pretty sure it is. Hyper-V non-role doesnt requires CALs, but Hyper-V role does.
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@PhlipElder said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
@NashBrydges said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
I met with a prospective client today over video chat (wanted to reduce physical exposure for everyone until we're in a place where onsite visit is necessary) and she walked me through her current setup and what she'd like to do. One thing stood out for me as potentially problematic so wanted to check here to see if someone could point me in the right direction.
Her current IT admin (still employed there...for now) has setup a Windows 2016 server with Hyper-V role. He's the used Disk2VHD to create a disk image of each of their business' 8 PCs and loaded them up on the Windows server to run as virtual desktop. He then uninstalled all of the business software from each of their desktops so they are now essentially running their entire business via those virtual Win10 machines. Each physical desktop is now essentially a client for accessing the users' virtual PCs. Nothing is running on their physical PCs except Windows 10 Pro. All their software is running on their virtual desktops.
I'm pretty sure that's problematic in that they are in breach of MS licensing terms (I think). There are no CALs. They simply use the Remote Desktop client on their physical desktops to access their virtual PCs and it is a 1:1 setup with everyone having their own virtual Win10 PC. There is no AD of any kind.
If I understand the licensing correctly, in this setup, they would require Windows Software Assurance, Windows VDA subscription, or Windows E3/E5 licenses, do I have that right? They would also require CALs for the appropriate # of users, correct?
Yes, Desktop Software Assurance gives virtualization rights for the Windows Desktop OS. Windows Desktop E3.
RDS CALs are also required since they are accessing endpoints via RDP.
The E3 license is not that expensive. It is a subscription licenses so annual.
You could also reach out to a Cloud Service Provider and look into E5 that yields Advanced Threat Protection among other great add-ons.
*All of our clients are on E3 and running Windows 10 Enterprise 64-bit.
Dont think RDS is needed here. Thats only when you have RDS involved in the process, not RDP. RDP doesnt ever require RDS. When RDS is required, its not due to or related to RDP.
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@scottalanmiller said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
@Obsolesce said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
@NashBrydges said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
If I understand the licensing correctly, in this setup, they would require Windows Software Assurance, Windows VDA subscription, or Windows E3/E5 licenses, do I have that right? They would also require CALs for the appropriate # of users, correct?
Yes, if this is all that the have, they need to license every piece of it because it sounds like it might be as much as 100% pirated right now.
They need some kind of licensing for VDI to handle the desktops, and some kind of license to deal with the fact that they have two copies of each OS - right now it's both a VDI violation and a full on complete piracy violation (he made illegal copies of every desktop) and almost certainly an OEM violation (those desktops must have been OEM copies.) So the entire Windows Desktop situation needs to be licensed.
Then there needs to be licensing for the entire Windows Server infrastructure. The server has to be licensed, and CALs acquire for every user in the company would in any way would gain any benefit or use from any aspect of any service that runs on anything that runs on top of Hyper-V (one of the huge never ending risks of using incorrectly installed Hyper-V). In this scenario, even installing a Linux VM and using it for DHCP means that every device on the network needs a Windows license because at some point, it depends on Windows.
Bottom line, this is so onerous, they should start over and rethink the whole train wreck. Why is any of this there? Just let them remote into their desktops instead and everything is solved and all kinds of money saved and better performance.
CALs are not required for the Windows Server if it's exclusively used as a host for the Hyper-V role.
Pretty sure it is. Hyper-V non-role doesnt requires CALs, but Hyper-V role does.
Highlights in red from first screenshot:
- CALs are not required for access in a Physical OSE used solely for hosting and managing Virtual OSEs.
- CALs are not required for access by another Licensed Server.
Highlights in red from second screenshot:
- "...You do not need CALs for:
- any instance running in a physical operating system environment used solely to:
- run hardware virtualization software;
- provide hardware virtualization services;
- run software to manage and service operating system environments on the licensed server."
- any instance running in a physical operating system environment used solely to:
I'd add more sources, but you can see the pattern from these.
First Source:
https://www.microsoftvolumelicensing.com/Downloader.aspx?documenttype=PT&lang=English
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@Obsolesce yeah, that has always been the way it works. No idea WTF Scott is going on about.
Now granted, a lot of idiots do other shit on the host, but that is just stupid people.
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I do agree with scott, why the heck did he do this?
Seems like we have the licensing all figured out now.
@scottalanmiller he can’t remote into his desktops, they have no other computers to o remote into from.
It’s not like they are remoting in from home, they are remoting from their original desktops.
Doing this doubled the number of machines the IT staff has to manage/maintain. Crazy
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@Dashrender said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
he can’t remote into his desktops, they have no other computers to o remote into from.
Either they have them, or they don't need them at all
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@scottalanmiller said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
@NashBrydges said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
There is no AD of any kind.
This doesn't play in. AD doesn't have any licensing. It is included in Windows Server and has no licenses or requirements of its own. If you can use server, you can use it, if you can't, you can't.
Microsoft Active Directory does have licensing.
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@dbeato said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
@NashBrydges said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
There is no AD of any kind.
This doesn't play in. AD doesn't have any licensing. It is included in Windows Server and has no licenses or requirements of its own. If you can use server, you can use it, if you can't, you can't.
Microsoft Active Directory does have licensing.
What do you mean? There's no case where it gets licensed. You license Windows Server and AD is part of it, there's no license for AD itself. Any situation where you'd use AD you already have to have Windows Server license, and nothing extra is ever needed.
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@scottalanmiller said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
@dbeato said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
@NashBrydges said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
There is no AD of any kind.
This doesn't play in. AD doesn't have any licensing. It is included in Windows Server and has no licenses or requirements of its own. If you can use server, you can use it, if you can't, you can't.
Microsoft Active Directory does have licensing.
What do you mean? There's no case where it gets licensed. You license Windows Server and AD is part of it, there's no license for AD itself. Any situation where you'd use AD you already have to have Windows Server license, and nothing extra is ever needed.
Well yeah, in order to use Microsoft Active Directory you still need a Windows Server which yes has to have a CAL (Per user or per device) for using same for SQL, RDS, Sharepoint and Exchange (onprem). So you were right
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@dbeato said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
@dbeato said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
@scottalanmiller said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
@NashBrydges said in VM Windows 10 Pro Licensing On Hyper-V:
There is no AD of any kind.
This doesn't play in. AD doesn't have any licensing. It is included in Windows Server and has no licenses or requirements of its own. If you can use server, you can use it, if you can't, you can't.
Microsoft Active Directory does have licensing.
What do you mean? There's no case where it gets licensed. You license Windows Server and AD is part of it, there's no license for AD itself. Any situation where you'd use AD you already have to have Windows Server license, and nothing extra is ever needed.
Well yeah, in order to use Microsoft Active Directory you still need a Windows Server which yes has to have a CAL (Per user or per device) for using same for SQL, RDS, Sharepoint and Exchange (onprem). So you were right
Yeah, you can't use AD without a license, but there's no license for AD
