Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software
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@JaredBusch said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
On top of that you were using chat which almost certain connected you to some low paid grunt reading from fixed knowledge base articles.
A low paid grunt who is the selected spokesperson for the company, who voluntarily promoted the license violation and stated that it was their, not his, suggestion to violate it.
If their KB articles are putting theft into writing, that's far worse still.
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@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@DustinB3403 said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@DustinB3403 said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@CCWTech Are you sure you aren't paying to be able to continue to have access to your deployed version?
I'm not trying to defend them here at all, just asking what does your "yearly maintenance" actually include?
Yes, but it is supposed to include product development as well.
Again, not defending these people, but does it say that anywhere?
They don't make that clear, but do make it clear that you must continue to pay to get newer versions to get new features, bug fixes, etc. New features would seem to me that it means product development. Otherwise why would anyone pay?
That's been the same since the software was very first released. it has never changed.
It is also absolutely normal for software development of all types.
Mesh Central is funded 100% by
IBMIntel and if it was not, it would not exists, or not have the features and dev time it currently has.Instead it would have a cost to buy and upgrade. Just like every other piece of software out there.
No one works for free.
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@JaredBusch said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@scottalanmiller said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@JaredBusch said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@scottalanmiller said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
I think the real issue is, now that everyone has seen MC, it's embarrassing how bad SC is. The amount of productivity gains we are getting from the switch is unbelievable.
While possibly true for you, Mesh Central is absolute crap to me.
I used it for months as the primary connection to one client to make sure I actually used it.Your opinion is not reality for anyone except you.
I've got lots of users on it and while it has taken them a bit to get over making the change, once they do, everyone is finding it way more productive.
Cuts our connection time by like 90%. We can actually start helping customers almost instantly instead of spending so much time waiting for ScreenConnect to finally be able to load its device list. We spend just as much time waiting for SC's list to stop flashing from its load problems as it does to complete the process of accessing a device in MC.
The difference is staggering. And running commands, we've had people lose so much time... days in fact, for issues that MC solved in minutes.
It's anything but "just me".
Anyone trained by you is also you. Because you make them do it your way.
I run commands direct on machines every day with no delays or issues.
I have no issues with "flashing" list of machines. I don't even know WTF that is.
I connect to systems on Windows, Android and iOS all the time.We don't have the flashing on Linux installs. Only on Windows. Maybe you don't have enough devices attached, but SC seems to fall down big time with thousands of devices.
But it's slow on Windows, we see issues that it can't render the screen well and takes a long time to load.
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@JaredBusch said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
Mesh Central is funded 100% by IBM and if it was not, it would not exists, or not have the features and dev time it currently has.
Intel
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@scottalanmiller said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@JaredBusch said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
Mesh Central is funded 100% by IBM and if it was not, it would not exists, or not have the features and dev time it currently has.
Intel
Fixed
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This is a strawman argument IMO. It is the customer's responsibility to use a properly licensed Windows Server. The software can run on multiple versions of Windows including workstation editions. You also could in "theory" use it on a workstation if you had to do so for testing.
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@JaredBusch said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
Anyone trained by you is also you. Because you make them do it your way.
Well, if you need MC training, let me know
It's true that we found people being very unproductive on MC and then we had a training session and people went from "SC-like" to lightning fast. A little training goes a long way.
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@IRJ said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
This is a strawman argument IMO. It is the customer's responsibility to use a properly licensed Windows Server. The software can run on multiple versions of Windows including workstation editions. You also could in "theory" use it on a workstation if you had to do so for testing.
Right, BUT, when the vendor tries to pressure you to steal the software in order to make their product cheaper, that changes responsibilities. It's still the vendor's responsibility to not lie and not try to misrepresent their product or how to use it.
A car salesman can't recommend that you run stop signs, while it still remains your responsibility to not do so regardless of what he said.
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@IRJ said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
This is a strawman argument IMO. It is the customer's responsibility to use a properly licensed Windows Server. The software can run on multiple versions of Windows including workstation editions. You also could in "theory" use it on a workstation if you had to do so for testing.
It's different if someone decides to violate the MS EULA than for a company to openly state that you should violate it.
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@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@IRJ said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
This is a strawman argument IMO. It is the customer's responsibility to use a properly licensed Windows Server. The software can run on multiple versions of Windows including workstation editions. You also could in "theory" use it on a workstation if you had to do so for testing.
It's different if someone decides to violate the MS EULA than for a company to openly state that you should violate it.
You been sucking Scott's air too long.
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@JaredBusch said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
If you are trying to manage thousands of computers via ScreenConnect, you can afford to plan you business on running a single Windows Server instance to host it. Would it be cheaper (slightly) to run it on Linux? Sure. But that does not change the fact that if you are at that scale, you should easily be able to handle a Server license.
The license cost scales up, too, though. What companies "can handle" is never a good approach to what "is a good decision" though. Companies get big and successful by considering what is a good decision, not spending to their limits just because they can.
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@JaredBusch said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@IRJ said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
This is a strawman argument IMO. It is the customer's responsibility to use a properly licensed Windows Server. The software can run on multiple versions of Windows including workstation editions. You also could in "theory" use it on a workstation if you had to do so for testing.
It's different if someone decides to violate the MS EULA than for a company to openly state that you should violate it.
You been sucking Scott's air too long.
It's basic logic. Using "violate a license" to sell something isn't a legal sales tactic.
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@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@IRJ said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
This is a strawman argument IMO. It is the customer's responsibility to use a properly licensed Windows Server. The software can run on multiple versions of Windows including workstation editions. You also could in "theory" use it on a workstation if you had to do so for testing.
It's different if someone decides to violate the MS EULA than for a company to openly state that you should violate it.
And to use that recommendation as a basis as their price comparison. That's false marketing and there are laws about that, too.
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@JaredBusch said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
Additionally, it is not a law being broken. It is a license agreement being violated. Licensing agreements can be, but are not always, subject to contract law and/or intellectual property laws.
Even if it's not a criminal act, civil laws are still laws and you can be punished for violating them. Are you suggesting that Microsoft forgot to make it enforceable?
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I don't think it is common knowledge among vendors what the MS EULA allows or not. The EULA states what is allowed and everything else is forbidden. But I've seen vendors even sell complete turnkey solutions with hardware and with Windows installed and where the usage is clearly not allowed and would have required a Windows Server license.
Of course this is only a problem with vendors that haven't matured enough to complete leave Windows behind unless forced otherwise.
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@Pete-S said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
I don't think it is common knowledge among vendors what the MS EULA allows or not. The EULA states what is allowed and everything else is forbidden. But I've seen vendors even sell complete turnkey solutions with hardware and with Windows installed and where the usage is clearly not allowed and would have required a Windows Server license.
I think they know but don't care. Who's left holding the bag? The person running Windows 10 as a server is responsible not the vendor.
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@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
"Windows
Note: The server installation requires .NET 4.7.1 and above.
Windows 7
Windows 8.1
Windows 10
Windows Server 2008
Windows Server 2012 / 2012 R2
Windows Server 2016
Windows Server 2019"So can you admit your company suggests breaking the law to deploy your software?
Allen Crist 09:09 AM
No we admit that we interpret the EULA different than you.
Tony Seunbane 09:10 AM
And different from how Microsoft interprets it? I have asked Microsoft Licensing Desk Employees and they stated exactly what I have. Keep in mind these are Microsoft employees that specialize in licensing.
Allen Crist 09:11 AM
I understand where you are coming from. I can only tell you what our PM stance on this is.Yep, this is exactly what my HVAC company said when we got a new system last year - Their software acts as a server, therefore must legally be installed on Windows Server, not Windows desktop OS... but the vendor "checked it out" and claims it's legal.
Short of an audit by Microsoft specifically where they look at use, nothing will likely ever happen.
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@Dashrender said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
"Windows
Note: The server installation requires .NET 4.7.1 and above.
Windows 7
Windows 8.1
Windows 10
Windows Server 2008
Windows Server 2012 / 2012 R2
Windows Server 2016
Windows Server 2019"So can you admit your company suggests breaking the law to deploy your software?
Allen Crist 09:09 AM
No we admit that we interpret the EULA different than you.
Tony Seunbane 09:10 AM
And different from how Microsoft interprets it? I have asked Microsoft Licensing Desk Employees and they stated exactly what I have. Keep in mind these are Microsoft employees that specialize in licensing.
Allen Crist 09:11 AM
I understand where you are coming from. I can only tell you what our PM stance on this is.Yep, this is exactly what my HVAC company said when we got a new system last year - Their software acts as a server, therefore must legally be installed on Windows Server, not Windows desktop OS... but the vendor "checked it out" and claims it's legal.
Short of an audit by Microsoft specifically where they look at use, nothing will likely ever happen.
You just contradicted yourself. If the vendor "checked it out" they would know that using a desktop operating system is against the EULA, it's not specifically illegal (from congress).
They checked out to see if it works, they care not about the potential damages they're putting you on the hook for.
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@Dashrender said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
"Windows
Note: The server installation requires .NET 4.7.1 and above.
Windows 7
Windows 8.1
Windows 10
Windows Server 2008
Windows Server 2012 / 2012 R2
Windows Server 2016
Windows Server 2019"So can you admit your company suggests breaking the law to deploy your software?
Allen Crist 09:09 AM
No we admit that we interpret the EULA different than you.
Tony Seunbane 09:10 AM
And different from how Microsoft interprets it? I have asked Microsoft Licensing Desk Employees and they stated exactly what I have. Keep in mind these are Microsoft employees that specialize in licensing.
Allen Crist 09:11 AM
I understand where you are coming from. I can only tell you what our PM stance on this is.Yep, this is exactly what my HVAC company said when we got a new system last year - Their software acts as a server, therefore must legally be installed on Windows Server, not Windows desktop OS... but the vendor "checked it out" and claims it's legal.
Short of an audit by Microsoft specifically where they look at use, nothing will likely ever happen.
Caught or not, there is a huge ethical issue. We can't control what they do, but can report them to Microsoft and we can still do the right thing. This company has been notified of the issue, that Microsoft Licensing Employees say you can't do it, the EULA is very clear but they say they interpret it a different way?
I mean, in what world does that work in?
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Legality refers to something passed into law (in our case by congress). EULA are simply an agreement between you and in this case Microsoft.
It gives MS an easy opportunity if it wanted to take you to court for damages or to make you stop doing something you've been doing.
The two are not at all related. You can use Windows 10 to act as a server, but you are not allowed to. It is also not illegal to use Windows 10 as a server (because congress isn't going to be passing any laws regarding this).
