Compare Azure to Windows On Prem for Normal Business Workloads
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AviMark on Azure vs. AviMark on Premises
This is an application that we support every day and is quite indicative of those "real world" applications that real companies have to deal with. It's Windows only, it's client - server, it doesn't use a RDBMS but rather a managed shared file, it requires an SMB share, it's chatty, it's highly latency sensitive. It's what every IT shop complains about, but can't get around. It is far and away the market leader in its field and has more than 10,000 deployments in the US, easily owning a third of all software deployed in its market.
Disclaimer: Cloud is actually a no-go for Avimark, or nearly any program like it, from the get go. Its customers have no physical choices on location and so rarely can get affordable, fast, or reliable Internet. And AviMark requires a Gigabit or faster wired connection for acceptable use. Solid 100Mb/s isn't good enough, it is noticeably slow, and Wifi is out of the question. It's highly chatty database communications over SMB makes it latency sensitive to an incredibly degree.
The smallest Azure instance that would run Avimark is A3 with four cores, 7GB of RAM, and 120GB of disk. In the real world, we normally see new deployments with eight coures, 16GB of RAM and 1TB of disk as the standard for small deployments. The Azure instance would be a little on the weak side, but should be adequate for most deployments. This instance is $224.84/mo or $2,698/year. Not cheap.
A typical on premises deployment is kept for eight to ten years and will never update Windows as it is not required for Avimark. It's common to see Windows 2008 R2 still deployed today, for example. For our calculations, we will assume a server of $5,500 plus a Windows Server license of $750. We will be overly generous and assuming a one time software update halfway through the system lifespan and add a second $750 charge. Making the on premises deployment an easy $7,000. $800 more for CALs for a typical sized business (that's $400, twice, with the upgrade.) And now we have $7,800 spread over eight years. How does that stack up?
Azure for AviMark: $21,584 / 8 years
On Prem AviMark: $7,800 / 8 yearsor...
Azure for AviMark: $2,698 / year
On Prem AviMark: $780 - $975 / yearYou can really seen the non-cloud cost savings quickly, even in a scenario like this one where the on prem works easily, and there is no way to do the cloud instance that effectively works at all. But this is just the beginning.
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Real World Avimark Plus AD Comparison
One of the key reasons that Avimark is often deployed with Windows Standard instead of Windows Essentials is to get the two VM option so that an AD DC can be run on the same hardware, as there is way, way more than enough spare capacity to do so without any additional purchases. You can run the AD DC and Avimark on the same VM with Essentials, and certainly many places do, but it's nice to have the more robust option of having both. If we assume the Essentials path with the aforementioned example, that would shave a lot of cost off of the Avimark deployment there and make the on prem dramatically more cost effective.
So in our example above, the $7,800 for Avimark doesn't just provide for the cost of the hardware and the Windows Server license and the CALs for Avimark, but all of the cost of doing the on prem AD DC is actually included in that. But if we look at Azure, those costs are not overlapping, but have to be added together.
So let's assume the same scenario as for Avimark, but now getting AD DC services in the mix as well and you'll see how in the real world cloud starts to fall down quickly with its "pay in total for each service separately" model.
Azure for Avimark: $2,698 / year
Azure for AD: $1,059 / year
Azure Total: $3,757 / yearOn Prem Avimark + AD: $780 - $975 / year
Paying a $3K premium per annum for the privilege of being on Azure seems crazy for common workloads. That's not a drop in the bucket. That's a lot of money to a small business. And more importantly, it's a huge percentage leap over the cost of doing it the way that they've always done it. That's more than 400% more costly.
Over a ten year time span, this setup would cost $29,770 more on Azure than on premises!
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@scottalanmiller I think you wrote that you "hate anything on prem" in some old thread. What have changed in the meantime?
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@Mario-Jakovina said in Compare Azure to Windows On Prem for Normal Business Workloads:
@scottalanmiller I think you wrote that you "hate anything on prem" in some old thread. What have changed in the meantime?
Well the first really key thing is .... remember cloud != off prem.
Cloud vs. Non-Cloud is unrelated to On Prem vs. Off Prem. So your question is completely unrelated to this discussion of pricing.
I still hate anything on prem, it's a ridiculous way to run things. But when you can't get solid Internet, and you can't move your business, you are trapped. But otherwise, yeah, get away from on-prem, but it is rare that you'd consider going to cloud.
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https://www.datamation.com/cloud-computing/is-cloud-computing-really-right-for-your-business-1.html
I've been really consistent over the years that cloud is an amazing technology, and one that applies to almost no one in the real world. But also that on prem is never going to go away, but that it sucks and you never want to be on prem unless you can't get around it.
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@scottalanmiller I am not questioning your consistency. My company uses on on prem servers because of both, unreliable internet, and calculations similar to yours in this thread.
I was just wandering whether something has changed in your view or not.
You are mentioning on prem here, not colo. I was not asking about cloud, so cloud != off prem does not mean anything here. -
@Mario-Jakovina said in Compare Azure to Windows On Prem for Normal Business Workloads:
You are mentioning on prem here, not colo. I was not asking about cloud, so cloud != off prem does not mean anything here.
Colo adds more complicated pricing to consider. This came from a discussion about an assertion that cloud would just save you money over traditional on premises deployments. I wanted a place to point people to show that no one should be thinking that cloud is a cost saving measure or cheap approach for any normal situation. It has amazing use cases that are just really uncommon and very unique and almost never apply to internal infrastructure.
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@scottalanmiller I agree
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@Mario-Jakovina said in Compare Azure to Windows On Prem for Normal Business Workloads:
My company uses on on prem servers because of both, unreliable internet, and calculations similar tou yours in this thread.
At NTG, we use colo for the majority of our needs and cloud for more specialized needs. But we are always looking at how to pull back from cloud for workloads as there is almost always a big cost savings getting from cloud to colo. But there are definitely cloud advantages for some use cases. We have zero on premises, we are a very modern company and are physical disparate, so we are ideally situated to have nothing on premises. Our design is LANless from the ground up and without good Internet we can't do anything, so that works out for us that we know that that will always be there.
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Applying legacy thinking to cloud and cloud migrations almost always results in increased costs.
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@scottalanmiller said in Compare Azure to Windows On Prem for Normal Business Workloads:
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Azure: $175.80 / year
Vultr: $60 / year
On Prem: $40 / yearVultr and Azure are nowhere near the same. Vultr compares more to AWS lightsail. Which essentially gives you the same VPS functionality without the entire infrastructure benefits in the cloud.
You don't talk about autoscaling or building a multi tiered application so of course you would use something like Vultr or Lightsail.
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I would recommend taking a professional level AWS or Azure course when you get a chance. If it's not something you've done before, it can be eye opening for the multitude of options and capabilities that you get. Even if you've done a course more than 2 years ago, a bunch has changed.
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I work in a cloud only environment and there is so much. I've done 100 hours of so training and I'm still learning.
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All of these scenarios sound like "hobby businesses".
Purchasing a piece of software and then not updating anything for 12 years....
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@scottalanmiller said in Compare Azure to Windows On Prem for Normal Business Workloads:
Disclaimer: Cloud is actually a no-go for Avimark, or nearly any program like it, from the get go.
Elasticity has nothing to do with the clients internet connection. Hopefully you mean hosted here...
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Scott where are you getting the AAD pricing from? Does AAD have some cloud computing non user based pricing? I’m only aware of the $4/u/m option ( or more)
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@Dashrender said in Compare Azure to Windows On Prem for Normal Business Workloads:
Scott where are you getting the AAD pricing from? Does AAD have some cloud computing non user based pricing? I’m only aware of the $4/u/m option ( or more)
He was referring to AAD DS, which was correct pricing for just that.
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@stacksofplates said in Compare Azure to Windows On Prem for Normal Business Workloads:
All of these scenarios sound like "hobby businesses".
Purchasing a piece of software and then not updating anything for 12 years....
It's the real world, though. Just look at discussions on here, it's how nearly everyone works.
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@Dashrender said in Compare Azure to Windows On Prem for Normal Business Workloads:
Scott where are you getting the AAD pricing from? Does AAD have some cloud computing non user based pricing? I’m only aware of the $4/u/m option ( or more)
I linked the pricing page when I stated it.
$4u/m would be massively more expensive.
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@IRJ said in Compare Azure to Windows On Prem for Normal Business Workloads:
I would recommend taking a professional level AWS or Azure course when you get a chance. If it's not something you've done before, it can be eye opening for the multitude of options and capabilities that you get. Even if you've done a course more than 2 years ago, a bunch has changed.
Oh it's great knowledge to have, for sure. And even businesses that "mostly" need to be on premises, will often need to know how to use cloud for special workloads.
