Solved Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?
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@WrCombs Industry standard enumeration for patching is like this (not everyone does this, and there is no rule, it's convention)...
major.minor.release
So a CentOS release might look like 6.9.1511
People refer to it as CentOS 6, normally. But that's just the major number. Other people call it 6.9, but that's just the minor number. When downloading an installer it even includes the 6.9.1511 for the latest release number. Yet every day there are additional itty bitty patches that are even smaller than the release number.
In the Windows world, we work from the NT number for patching. But it works identically. When you use the patch numbers, rather than marketing names of the levels, it becomes relatively clear that all of the upgrades are just patches. They only seem like huge leaps because thousands of patches have been missed in between.
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@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
It even had a mapped drive that is no longer there.
Was it supposed to be there?
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@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
So going from and Old OS to a new OS is not an upgrade it's called a patch
It's ALL a grey area. ALL patching is an upgrade, all upgrades are patches.
Patching in the Linux world is a command called upgrade. And OS versions are just "major" patch releases.
So yes, absolutely, going from an older OS version to a new is a patch.
Thanks for clarifying.
To solve a lot of the confusion around this (because being confused about patching vs upgrading encouraged a lot of people to stop updating their machines feeling that old versions were "different" rather than just "old") Microsoft renamed everything to Windows 10 and now the same release differences as Windows 7 to Windows 8 are done through the normal patch releases and are barely even noticeable in the interface. If you pay close attention, they are there, of course. So if you were running an old Windows 10 and ran updates, you'd subtley see Windows 10 1903 sneak in as one of the updates. But 1903 is a "major release" on par with Windows XP, 7, 8 or similar. So Microsoft has effectively removed even major release numbers from public view specifically so that there would be no (or essentially no) way for customers to feel like they should stay on an old, unpatches version and no way for MSPs or IT pros to try to block upgrades or act like there is a cost involved.
You can see from this scenario alone how important the changes to branding in Windows 10 are for Microsoft, it's astonishing how many customers haven't updated, and how many VARs and MSPs and decision makers intentionally avoid patching or block patching, all based on misunderstandings of release numbers rather than on the realities of code, cost, licensing, etc. So Microsoft rebranded everything to make lay people never see those release numbers anymore.
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@WrCombs this chart makes it more visible when all 18 major and minor Windows NT releases are shown in order. You can see how certain naming made old versions feel like updates, and now we can see that they are just patches in later releases.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/17713/windows-nt-release-history
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Also, just for fun when talking to people....
In the entire history of Windows NT releases, Windows 7 is the ninth release. There are a total of 18. That means Windows 7 is closer in release versions to the very first release in 1993 than it is to the current 1903 release version today!
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@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
It even had a mapped drive that is no longer there.
Was it supposed to be there?
There was one yesterday when I was working on an unrelated issue.
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@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
Also, just for fun when talking to people....
In the entire history of Windows NT releases, Windows 7 is the ninth release. There are a total of 18. That means Windows 7 is closer in release versions to the very first release in 1993 than it is to the current 1903 release version today!
Wow, now there's some wonderful perspective!
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@Obsolesce said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
Also, just for fun when talking to people....
In the entire history of Windows NT releases, Windows 7 is the ninth release. There are a total of 18. That means Windows 7 is closer in release versions to the very first release in 1993 than it is to the current 1903 release version today!
Wow, now there's some wonderful perspective!
I know, right? Being able to quickly say things like "Windows 7 is from the first era of Windows" and "it's eleven releases old and we are expecting yet another major release in just a month or two" make people go "wait, what?"
Some people have convinced themselves that Windows 7, 8, and 10 are all that there are... forgetting that 8.1 was a full major release with a bizarre name where 9 should have been, and that Windows 10 isn't a version, but the new name of Windows itself. So they start to behave like they skipped 8 and are just waiting to go to two versions after 7. Making them realize that we've had more versions since 7 than before makes it hard to pretend that they aren't ridiculously out of date.
Running on Windows 7 is like using RHEL 5 or Ubuntu 9.04. Both so old that it sounds completely crazy. Their straightforward naming conventions protected them from that insanity.
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@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
we're pushing all of customers to upgrade to windows 10 anyway, But that doesn't fix the fact that I cant do anything to fix the issue now - SO my site is basically down during their busiest time of the day.
But only because they are choosing to be down rather than allowing you to fix, correct? Is there anything holding back the Windows 10 fix other than them simply refusing to do so?
price.
Since it is free, that's not true. Unless their Windows 7 is stolen.
they would have to buy a new server or a license
A new what server and license?
the way it was explained to me:
"to upgrade from windows 7 to windows 10 the customer will have to buy a new Server ( hardware) or they would have to purchase a windows 10 license. "I asked my boss again why we don't upgrade from windows 7 to windows 10 on customer Servers as we were talking about this call and he said :
"Because that's not how we do things. If you upgrade to free windows 10 - we dont know what problems come from that, we dont know if it will work with the set up we have. SO when it comes to upgrading Windows Versions - we dont sell windows we sell Aloha, and you have to think of what's best for the customer and what's best for the company- If you upgrade them for free and it doesn't fix the problem then you just caused more problems down the road. not to mention older PC's running windows 10 that may be having hardware problems as well as software. So we sell them a new PC put out image on it that we know works - It's best for the Customer as they get newer equipment and Windows 10- instead of potentially causing problems with upgrading.
Besides, we dont upgrade Windows Versions."so it basically comes down to - Its a business decision that eliminates any issues with an upgrade we aren't sure about -
If this wasn't the PoS industry I'm sure it would be different, but since PoS is only a Section of Business and not a dedicated "IT FIELD" We do things to meet the standard of Point of Sale-
Like I said - It's not IT.
but he's "Looking at it and we will decide what to do next." -
@Obsolesce said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
we're pushing all of customers to upgrade to windows 10 anyway, But that doesn't fix the fact that I cant do anything to fix the issue now - SO my site is basically down during their busiest time of the day.
But only because they are choosing to be down rather than allowing you to fix, correct? Is there anything holding back the Windows 10 fix other than them simply refusing to do so?
price.
So it's s cheaper to be closed down several days a year than to buy a Win10 license? Sounds like a busy place LOL!
There is no purchase of Windows 10 at all, they have Windows 7, and a free upgrade to Windows 10 just waiting for it to be installed.
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@DustinB3403 said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@Obsolesce said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
we're pushing all of customers to upgrade to windows 10 anyway, But that doesn't fix the fact that I cant do anything to fix the issue now - SO my site is basically down during their busiest time of the day.
But only because they are choosing to be down rather than allowing you to fix, correct? Is there anything holding back the Windows 10 fix other than them simply refusing to do so?
price.
So it's s cheaper to be closed down several days a year than to buy a Win10 license? Sounds like a busy place LOL!
There is no purchase of Windows 10 at all, they have Windows 7, and a free upgrade to Windows 10 just waiting for it to be installed.
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
we're pushing all of customers to upgrade to windows 10 anyway, But that doesn't fix the fact that I cant do anything to fix the issue now - SO my site is basically down during their busiest time of the day.
But only because they are choosing to be down rather than allowing you to fix, correct? Is there anything holding back the Windows 10 fix other than them simply refusing to do so?
price.
Since it is free, that's not true. Unless their Windows 7 is stolen.
they would have to buy a new server or a license
A new what server and license?
the way it was explained to me:
"to upgrade from windows 7 to windows 10 the customer will have to buy a new Server ( hardware) or they would have to purchase a windows 10 license. "I asked my boss again why we don't upgrade from windows 7 to windows 10 on customer Servers as we were talking about this call and he said :
"Because that's not how we do things. If you upgrade to free windows 10 - we dont know what problems come from that, we dont know if it will work with the set up we have. SO when it comes to upgrading Windows Versions - we dont sell windows we sell Aloha, and you have to think of what's best for the customer and what's best for the company- If you upgrade them for free and it doesn't fix the problem then you just caused more problems down the road. not to mention older PC's running windows 10 that may be having hardware problems as well as software. So we sell them a new PC put out image on it that we know works - It's best for the Customer as they get newer equipment and Windows 10- instead of potentially causing problems with upgrading.
Besides, we dont upgrade Windows Versions."so it basically comes down to - Its a business decision that eliminates any issues with an upgrade we aren't sure about -
If this wasn't the PoS industry I'm sure it would be different, but since PoS is only a Section of Business and not a dedicated "IT FIELD" We do things to meet the standard of Point of Sale-
Like I said - It's not IT.
but he's "Looking at it and we will decide what to do next." -
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
"Because that's not how we do things. If you upgrade to free windows 10 - we dont know what problems come from that, we dont know if it will work with the set up we have. SO when it comes to upgrading Windows Versions - we dont sell windows we sell Aloha, and you have to think of what's best for the customer and what's best for the company- If you upgrade them for free and it doesn't fix the problem then you just caused more problems down the road. not to mention older PC's running windows 10 that may be having hardware problems as well as software. So we sell them a new PC put out image on it that we know works - It's best for the Customer as they get newer equipment and Windows 10- instead of potentially causing problems with upgrading.
Besides, we dont upgrade Windows Versions."Your boss is insane.
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
ts a business decision that eliminates any issues with an upgrade we aren't sure about -
It should be the Aloha developers and sellers who 1) test upgrades 2) verify that hardware is supported between OS versions.
By not testing, do you get into a rut of No upgrades, you have to purchase completely new systems if you want the latest most secure OS possible with the most up to date software possible.
TL:DR Your boss is insane.
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
Looking at it and we will decide what to do next
He's going to tell you to just "fix the issue and charge the customer for however many hours it takes to do it.
TL:DR Your boss is insane.
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If even as a business you took the burden of testing upgrades from 1 OS and hardware to Windows 10 with the same hardware, you would at least have a measuring stick to use to sell upgraded hardware if a customer wanted to upgrade.
You could have metrics of say "We can upgrade you on that hardware, but it causes issues XY and Z, and it's much better to purchase a new system entirely as it'll cost X, whereas upgrading means we have to bill you for T&M plus the time the PoS is down during the upgrade".
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@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
Looking at it and we will decide what to do next
He's going to tell you to just "fix the issue and charge the customer for however many hours it takes to do it.
TL:DR Your boss is insane.
The issue isn't actually with the server - according to my boss I over looked that the other Terms were still actively communicating with the back office.
The issue lies with their Term 1. -
@DustinB3403 said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
"Because that's not how we do things. If you upgrade to free windows 10 - we dont know what problems come from that, we dont know if it will work with the set up we have. SO when it comes to upgrading Windows Versions - we dont sell windows we sell Aloha, and you have to think of what's best for the customer and what's best for the company- If you upgrade them for free and it doesn't fix the problem then you just caused more problems down the road. not to mention older PC's running windows 10 that may be having hardware problems as well as software. So we sell them a new PC put out image on it that we know works - It's best for the Customer as they get newer equipment and Windows 10- instead of potentially causing problems with upgrading.
Besides, we dont upgrade Windows Versions."Your boss is insane.
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
ts a business decision that eliminates any issues with an upgrade we aren't sure about -
It should be the Aloha developers and sellers who 1) test upgrades 2) verify that hardware is supported between OS versions.
By not testing, do you get into a rut of No upgrades, you have to purchase completely new systems if you want the latest most secure OS possible with the most up to date software possible.
TL:DR Your boss is insane.
according to my boss "it's not worth the risk"
since he decides everything for my department - Unless I take this over his head and go to my new GM then What he says goes - and she'll ask what he has to say about it. -
@DustinB3403 said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
If even as a business you took the burden of testing upgrades from 1 OS and hardware to Windows 10 with the same hardware, you would at least have a measuring stick to use to sell upgraded hardware if a customer wanted to upgrade.
You could have metrics of say "We can upgrade you on that hardware, but it causes issues XY and Z, and it's much better to purchase a new system entirely as it'll cost X, whereas upgrading means we have to bill you for T&M plus the time the PoS is down during the upgrade".
That's not how things are seen here.
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@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
according to my boss "it's not worth the risk"
since he decides everything for my department - Unless I take this over his head and go to my new GM then What he says goes - and she'll ask what he has to say about it.What risk is there? Is there not a demo environment of the Aloha PoS setup (or could be setup) to see how it goes? Is there not a client who would be willing to be upgraded even if it included some risks.
I get it, it's not your job to do something unless you're told too.
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
That's not how things are seen here.
Again, I understand, not your job to jump until told, and the business you work for sounds like an MSP with PoS sales so there is no interests in trying to fix problems, but instead just there to sell the latest and greatest and bill the client for everything else.
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@DustinB3403 said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
according to my boss "it's not worth the risk"
since he decides everything for my department - Unless I take this over his head and go to my new GM then What he says goes - and she'll ask what he has to say about it.What risk is there? Is there not a demo environment of the Aloha PoS setup (or could be setup) to see how it goes? Is there not a client who would be willing to be upgraded even if it included some risks.
I get it, it's not your job to do something unless you're told too.
We dont use Clients as "demos or tests" and we don't have a demo to try upgrading to Windows 10 - I would have to do that on my own - which would be pointless because I already know how to upgrade the PC to windows 10,I've done it in the past with personal/friends personal devices.
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
That's not how things are seen here.
Again, I understand, not your job to jump until told, and the business you work for sounds like an MSP with PoS sales so there is no interests in trying to fix problems, but instead just there to sell the latest and greatest and bill the client for everything else.
I dont even know what the role of my business is other than Provide PoS support. and Install new sites as the sales come in.
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@WrCombs said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
Provide PoS support
If that is the case, then why would your employer and Aloha not have an upgrade process developed. It would increase the support hours for your business and a sales revenue for Aloha as customers upgrade.
This seems more and more like the business is there to simply take advantage of other businesses who aren't PoS sales and installation.
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@DustinB3403 said in Windows 7 File and Printer Sharing wont turn on:
If that is the case, then why would your employer and Aloha not have an upgrade process developed.
Oh wait I know, because your employer and Aloha charge way more for a forklift operation rather than an In-n-Out operation of just upgrading.
"We need to take everything out, move the data, install all new equipment, rebuild the network, tune the WiFi, check the break light fluid levels and rebuild the motor."
Compared to the "Let's just add some oil to the engine and it'll last another 3 years with regular maintenance".
