Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?
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@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@DustinB3403 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
You could easily be adding an additional 2-6 K on top of what you estimated for just the chassis and drives.
Makes sense, ill keep looking. This we could make a saving my getting smaller drives, say 8TB, but more of them?
Maybe, but a lot more of them. What capacity do you actually need?
170 TB, usable. But with ability to expand in the future if we need to.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@DustinB3403 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@DustinB3403 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
SC847E16-R1K28LPB
CPU, RAM, Power supplies, motherboard?
I assumed that is already within the device?
Chassis implies none of those things. If you look, the chassis lists the kinds of motherboards it supports. It doesn't have a mobo, let alone CPU, RAM, etc.
https://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/4U/847/SC847E16-R1K28LPB
SuperMicro you always buy through a dealer. Looking at SM's website is just about useless. Talk to PCM UK and have them assemble something for you, trying to do it yourself will be a nightmare and that's never how SM expects it to work.
Would that PCM work also include OS setup/setting up the file system? So we just rack it in the office and turn it on...
It's very plausible you could have the dealer do this for you, but I'd reload it myself.
What sort of hardware support do we get? I assume just manufacturer warranty?
What else is there? I mean you can talk to an MSP and pay some huge money for them to warranty your work or whatever. But.... all you are doing is paying them to be a financial vehicle which will cost you a lot of money.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@DustinB3403 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
You could easily be adding an additional 2-6 K on top of what you estimated for just the chassis and drives.
Makes sense, ill keep looking. This we could make a saving my getting smaller drives, say 8TB, but more of them?
Maybe, but a lot more of them. What capacity do you actually need?
170 TB, usable. But with ability to expand in the future if we need to.
RAID systems means no expansion. Just general rules of storage.
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Not impossible, just a bad idea. And any system that allows you to expand is worse than one that doesn't. Expansions in RAID are complex and risky. And that's on tiny arrays. Big arrays, totally out of the question.
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@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@DustinB3403 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@DustinB3403 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
SC847E16-R1K28LPB
CPU, RAM, Power supplies, motherboard?
I assumed that is already within the device?
Chassis implies none of those things. If you look, the chassis lists the kinds of motherboards it supports. It doesn't have a mobo, let alone CPU, RAM, etc.
https://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/4U/847/SC847E16-R1K28LPB
SuperMicro you always buy through a dealer. Looking at SM's website is just about useless. Talk to PCM UK and have them assemble something for you, trying to do it yourself will be a nightmare and that's never how SM expects it to work.
Would that PCM work also include OS setup/setting up the file system? So we just rack it in the office and turn it on...
It's very plausible you could have the dealer do this for you, but I'd reload it myself.
What sort of hardware support do we get? I assume just manufacturer warranty?
What else is there? I mean you can talk to an MSP and pay some huge money for them to warranty your work or whatever. But.... all you are doing is paying them to be a financial vehicle which will cost you a lot of money.
What I mean by this is, for example, Dell can supply 4h mission critical hardware/drive replacement (or so) if something were to fail.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
What I mean by this is, for example, Dell can supply 4h mission critical hardware/drive replacement (or so) if something were to fail.
Dell can, unless you buy third party drives. Then the parts expected to fail aren't ones with support. Dell, SuperMicro, Western Digital... all the same here. Manufacturers warranty of just the parts that you buy from them.
But no one can do any kind of mission critical support for anywhere near your price point. Not even close.
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You have to choose how to approach this. Your budget is currently lower than the cost of parts with 100% of the expertise being in house and your time being spent. And you'll likely miss your budget by 30% even doing that. And that's without anything but "next week" parts delivery and probably you'd have to send the failed parts out before getting a replacement.
To get enterprise support costs big, big money. Really big. And something like this, I doubt someone like Dell will support period. This is a scale that all enterprise vendors will only deal with from their storage divisions. So with Dell, you are talking EMC Isilon and likely $80,000 or more.
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If you need hardware protection, by far your cheapest option is going to be maintaining your own spare parts. Expensive, but a fraction of the cost of a warranty. And way faster parts replacement (minutes, not hours or days.) And for the system itself, an MSP will lower your overall cost and get you support. Without that, you are stuck maintaining it with in house expertise and resources. Which if you have them, great. But if not... nothing is more expensive that the cost of attempting to run systems you can't maintain.
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@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
If you need hardware protection, by far your cheapest option is going to be maintaining your own spare parts. Expensive, but a fraction of the cost of a warranty. And way faster parts replacement (minutes, not hours or days.) And for the system itself, an MSP will lower your overall cost and get you support. Without that, you are stuck maintaining it with in house expertise and resources. Which if you have them, great. But if not... nothing is more expensive that the cost of attempting to run systems you can't maintain.
Still, the budget is the budget. What else would you suggest? I know I could get a QNAP at this cost with the right storage, in RAID 10. May not bee a good idea, and I dont like QNAP, but it fits the budget...
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Still, the budget is the budget. What else would you suggest? I know I could get a QNAP at this cost with the right storage, in RAID 10. May not bee a good idea, and I dont like QNAP, but it fits the budget...
The suggestion is that you either reduce what you need for storage, or expect that warranty would be parts only within the MFR stock terms.
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170TB Usable from different drives using some aggressive pricing... (prices in USD)
Drive Type Drives Needed in R10 Cost Per Drive Resulting Cost 15TB 24 NA ? 14TB 26 $598 $15548 12TB 30 $471 $14130 10TB 34 $395 $13430 8TB 44 $332 $14608 -
@DustinB3403 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Still, the budget is the budget. What else would you suggest? I know I could get a QNAP at this cost with the right storage, in RAID 10. May not bee a good idea, and I dont like QNAP, but it fits the budget...
The suggestion is that you either reduce what you need for storage, or expect that warranty would be parts only within the MFR stock terms.
Parts only is fine. I was just curious if it 'came with anything else'...
I'll get that company to put a quote together, but worst case a shitty QNAP is still an option.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Still, the budget is the budget.
That's how consumers work, never how a business operates. Businesses work based on what they can invest in and what is best for the business. The concept of a fixed budget is not workable in a business context. That's pure insanity and leads to utter disaster.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
but worst case a shitty QNAP is still an option
Not a real one, no.
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QNAP is also not a contender in this space, it's on par with a Synology (especially at this scale) and you'd still be limited to the manufacturer warranty.
If you use a vendor to buy the parts (and build it for you) you at least have the possible option of getting additional warranty from that vendor for the whole unit. (It caught on fire because you're guys are jackasses sorts of things).
But you don't have the budget to do this and have 6 years 24x7x4 hour parts warranty with the capacity needed.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
I know I could get a QNAP at this cost with the right storage, in RAID 10.
You sure? How?
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@DustinB3403 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
QNAP is also not a contender in this space, it's on par with a Synology (especially at this scale) and you'd still be limited to the manufacturer warranty.
It has improved, but in no way is on par with Synology.
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@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
170TB Usable from different drives using some aggressive pricing... (prices in USD)
Drive Type Drives Needed in R10 Cost Per Drive Resulting Cost 15TB 24 NA ? 14TB 26 $598 $15548 12TB 30 $471 $14130 10TB 34 $395 $13430 8TB 44 $332 $14608 I can get 14TB drive her in UK for £432.65, 26 of them = £11,248.90. So, I need to fix a box to use them for £3,750 or less...
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
May not bee a good idea, and I dont like QNAP, but it fits the budget...
If the budget doesn't allow for the need, you need to explain to the people making the false budget that they screwed up and you need to fix their thinking. What if they said the budget is $200, what would you do?
IT planning is a mix of "what we can go" and "what we can do" with "cost" and "needs" and "possible funding." All of that goes together. Locking any one of those factors arbitrarily means sabotage - wasting money just to hurt the business. They all have to float together to make a decision.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@DustinB3403 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Still, the budget is the budget. What else would you suggest? I know I could get a QNAP at this cost with the right storage, in RAID 10. May not bee a good idea, and I dont like QNAP, but it fits the budget...
The suggestion is that you either reduce what you need for storage, or expect that warranty would be parts only within the MFR stock terms.
Parts only is fine. I was just curious if it 'came with anything else'...
I'll get that company to put a quote together, but worst case a shitty QNAP is still an option.
Parts only is what you'd get with any vendor who you buy this from. If you assembled it yourself you'd still have "parts only" but literally per piece per manufacturer that something was purchased from.
WD drives, WD 12 month warranty (maybe longer)
SM Chassis - SM warranty
SM motherboard - warranty for just that MB
