Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?
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@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
How does this handle modified data?
It doesn't, but you don't change data in backups, so that's not normally a big deal.
We are initially going to have to use Veeam Free edition. At the end of the retention period, it injects the oldest increment in to the original full backup... is that not possible with tape?
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
At the end of the retention period, it injects the oldest increment in to the original full backup... is that not possible with tape?
Definitely not possible with tape. But that's just one of the many assumptions that need to be changed. Someone did your backup planning based on false assumptions. You need to back up and decide on goals and make all decisions based on those goals.
However, what you describe isn't exactly how Veeam works. Also, Veeam is a company, not a product, there are multiple free products from them. And they all work a bit differently.
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So let's start with some info...
- What is the size of a single full backup?
- What is being backed up?
- What is the retention period?
- What are the goals?
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@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
At the end of the retention period, it injects the oldest increment in to the original full backup... is that not possible with tape?
Definitely not possible with tape. But that's just one of the many assumptions that need to be changed. Someone did your backup planning based on false assumptions. You need to back up and decide on goals and make all decisions based on those goals.
However, what you describe isn't exactly how Veeam works. Also, Veeam is a company, not a product, there are multiple free products from them. And they all work a bit differently.
https://www.veeam.com/windows-endpoint-server-backup-free.html
That one.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
At the end of the retention period, it injects the oldest increment in to the original full backup... is that not possible with tape?
Definitely not possible with tape. But that's just one of the many assumptions that need to be changed. Someone did your backup planning based on false assumptions. You need to back up and decide on goals and make all decisions based on those goals.
However, what you describe isn't exactly how Veeam works. Also, Veeam is a company, not a product, there are multiple free products from them. And they all work a bit differently.
https://www.veeam.com/windows-endpoint-server-backup-free.html
That one.
Good thing that I asked, this is a case where me being pedantic really did result in the answer no one would expect. "The free version of Veeam" means this one to almost all people: https://www.veeam.com/virtual-machine-backup-solution-free.html
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@scottalanmiller said
However, what you describe isn't exactly how Veeam works. Also, Veeam is a company, not a product, there are multiple free products from them. And they all work a bit differently.
https://www.veeam.com/veeam_agent_windows_3_0_user_guide_pg.pdf
"Veeam Agent for Microsoft Windows re-builds the full backup file to include in it data of the
incremental backup file that follows the full backup file. To do this, Veeam Agent for Microsoft
Windows injects into the full backup file data blocks from the earliest incremental backup file
in the chain. This way, a full backup ‘moves’ forward in the backup chain" -
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@scottalanmiller said
However, what you describe isn't exactly how Veeam works. Also, Veeam is a company, not a product, there are multiple free products from them. And they all work a bit differently.
https://www.veeam.com/veeam_agent_windows_3_0_user_guide_pg.pdf
"Veeam Agent for Microsoft Windows re-builds the full backup file to include in it data of the
incremental backup file that follows the full backup file. To do this, Veeam Agent for Microsoft
Windows injects into the full backup file data blocks from the earliest incremental backup file
in the chain. This way, a full backup ‘moves’ forward in the backup chain"Yes, Veeam Agent for Windows does NOT support tape.
https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/agentforwindows/userguide/backup_job_target.html?ver=30
Veeam Agent is intended to be used as an agent backing up to a Veeam server. The Veeam server handles the tape. Here you are stuck with something much more complex because you are using only part of the Veeam system, they added some extra bits to make a free option, but the free option might cost you a fortune in hardware.
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@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
At the end of the retention period, it injects the oldest increment in to the original full backup... is that not possible with tape?
Definitely not possible with tape. But that's just one of the many assumptions that need to be changed. Someone did your backup planning based on false assumptions. You need to back up and decide on goals and make all decisions based on those goals.
However, what you describe isn't exactly how Veeam works. Also, Veeam is a company, not a product, there are multiple free products from them. And they all work a bit differently.
https://www.veeam.com/windows-endpoint-server-backup-free.html
That one.
Good thing that I asked, this is a case where me being pedantic really did result in the answer no one would expect. "The free version of Veeam" means this one to almost all people: https://www.veeam.com/virtual-machine-backup-solution-free.html
Does the version you put here allow scheduling with the free version, and unlimited VMs?
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Veeam Agent for Microsoft Windows re-builds the full backup file to include in it data of the
incremental backup file that follows the full backup file.that's the incremental. you don't take an incremental with tape.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Does the version you put here allow scheduling with the free version, and unlimited VMs?
No, they are unrelated products. You get two VMs only. But it is the product that people refer to as "Veeam", and the key features that people claim to be why they choose Veeam are only in that version.
I like the product that you are choosing just fine, just pointing out that when you say "Veeam", to 99% of people it means a very different product than the one you are using. Veeam has become an industry standard meaning "agentless", even though they make agent based products like the Agent for Windows.
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@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Veeam Agent for Microsoft Windows re-builds the full backup file to include in it data of the
incremental backup file that follows the full backup file.that's the incremental. you don't take an incremental with tape.
Does the version you posted support tape, and does that allow unlimited VMs and scheduling?
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Veeam Agent for Microsoft Windows re-builds the full backup file to include in it data of the
incremental backup file that follows the full backup file.that's the incremental. you don't take an incremental with tape.
Does the version you posted support tape, and does that allow unlimited VMs and scheduling?
Yup, supports tape and it would be the standard way to do it. It's also the back end that makes the Agent powerful and able to do "anything." It's expected that you buy the two together.
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@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Does the version you put here allow scheduling with the free version, and unlimited VMs?
No, they are unrelated products. You get two VMs only. But it is the product that people refer to as "Veeam", and the key features that people claim to be why they choose Veeam are only in that version.
I like the product that you are choosing just fine, just pointing out that when you say "Veeam", to 99% of people it means a very different product than the one you are using. Veeam has become an industry standard meaning "agentless", even though they make agent based products like the Agent for Windows.
This makes sense. I cannot currently use this product though if it only allows two VMs.
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Working only with the free version is going to be crazy limiting here. Why is there so much data being stored, but no budget to back it up?
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
This makes sense. I cannot currently use this product though if it only allows two VMs.
Sounds like Veeam isn't a viable option for you, it doesn't allow for your budgetary needs.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Does the version you put here allow scheduling with the free version, and unlimited VMs?
No, they are unrelated products. You get two VMs only. But it is the product that people refer to as "Veeam", and the key features that people claim to be why they choose Veeam are only in that version.
I like the product that you are choosing just fine, just pointing out that when you say "Veeam", to 99% of people it means a very different product than the one you are using. Veeam has become an industry standard meaning "agentless", even though they make agent based products like the Agent for Windows.
This makes sense. I cannot currently use this product though if it only allows two VMs.
Oh, they raised the limit to 10. That's very new.
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@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
This makes sense. I cannot currently use this product though if it only allows two VMs.
Sounds like Veeam isn't a viable option for you, it doesn't allow for your budgetary needs.
Currently. We will be using Veeam next year. But this year we have to use up to the 15k to get backups in place until then, and the Free Agent/Windows edition works well from where I have seen it used before.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
the Free Agent/Windows edition works well from where I have seen it used before.
Yes, but makes you spend a fortune in hardware to meet the need. So the "Free" version looks like it will cost you $11,000 or so.
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So all this time you are talking about your backup storage, but not the backup server. But it turns out you are trying to stream from individual machines directly to the backup storage. This throws yet another kink in the works. Normally you talk about a backup server (like the Veeam server) that handles the backups, then this server would be what that sends to. Basically the backup server does the work, and a storage device does the storage.
But you aren't planning on having a backup server. This is a problem. This is why tapes won't work. Because you don't have the server to run the tape device. So this gets messy quickly.
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How are you determining the amount of storage that will be needed?
