DD-WRT
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@Dashrender said in DD-WRT:
@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
@DustinB3403 said in DD-WRT:
A normal user won't setup their business with a VPN, service priorities etc. And if they can, their consumer POS may not offer it. So if they installed DD-WRT and set those things up on it, would you then consider that person as a power user?
No, I'd consider them a hobbyist. I think I've been clear and consistent on that. Those aren't advanced features, they are basic features that not all equipment exposes, but many do. It's stuff that entry level toy equipment for gaming offers, so absolutely not power user in any way. Just because someone did it for cheaper doesn't make them a power user.
they would need to at least use advanced features that aren't considered consumer, and at least do it in a business behaving way for me to consider them a power user.
So Scott's definition of Hobbyist is what the rest of us call a power user. OK - see Hobbyist, read power user - OK.. got it.
That's fine. Maybe that's how I see it. I see what you call a "power user" as a "normal user fooling around". Not a higher level in any IT or business context.
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
Example....Hobbyiest: Installs DD-WRT at home because it is "cool."
Hobby Business: Installs DD-WRT at work because it is "cool" or they think they don't need entry point business approaches.
Power User: Installs UBNT ERL at home and treats it like a business.
Business: Installs UBNT ERL at work and treats it like a business.This completely contradicts what you said above. Buying something and not implementing it's advanced features does NOT make you a power user. Simply buying an ERL does definitely NOT make you a power user. If I need to use something on the ERL that the consumer router can't do, that is what would make you a power user.
I disagree. The ERL is an "advanced feature" itself in a business context here. No contradiction, it's exactly what I keep pointing out.
Buying or choosing a solution does not qualify you as a Power User or above just because you "picked something that Scott agrees with."
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So, by your definitions, DD-WRT is garbage that has no place in business BECAUSE power users have no place in business. That's the difference. I see power users as people edging towards serious use. You see them as people fooling around.
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There haven't been any updates to that project in a long while. I'm pretty sure that project is about dead. If you just want to hold on to that old equipment, might want to check out either Tomato or OpenWRT. Otherwise, I would definitely suggest Ubiquiti.
The 2.4 / stable is dead but there's a fresh build almost at least once a week in the beta channel.
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@DustinB3403 said in DD-WRT:
@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
Example....Hobbyiest: Installs DD-WRT at home because it is "cool."
Hobby Business: Installs DD-WRT at work because it is "cool" or they think they don't need entry point business approaches.
Power User: Installs UBNT ERL at home and treats it like a business.
Business: Installs UBNT ERL at work and treats it like a business.This completely contradicts what you said above. Buying something and not implementing it's advanced features does NOT make you a power user. Simply buying an ERL does definitely NOT make you a power user. If I need to use something on the ERL that the consumer router can't do, that is what would make you a power user.
I disagree. The ERL is an "advanced feature" itself in a business context here. No contradiction, it's exactly what I keep pointing out.
Buying or choosing a solution does not qualify you as a Power User or above just because you "picked something that Scott agrees with."
It does in the IT and business worlds, which is what we are discussing.
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
If "features" are how you define power user, then I agree, DD-WRT is for power users and I'd define power users as a pointless definition that has a terrible name implying that they are heavier or more serious users, because features and more serious users don't go together.
So if my POS consumer router firmware doesn't allow me to forward ports, but DD-WRT unlocks this, it wouldn't be a power user feature?
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
@Dashrender said in DD-WRT:
@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
@DustinB3403 said in DD-WRT:
A normal user won't setup their business with a VPN, service priorities etc. And if they can, their consumer POS may not offer it. So if they installed DD-WRT and set those things up on it, would you then consider that person as a power user?
No, I'd consider them a hobbyist. I think I've been clear and consistent on that. Those aren't advanced features, they are basic features that not all equipment exposes, but many do. It's stuff that entry level toy equipment for gaming offers, so absolutely not power user in any way. Just because someone did it for cheaper doesn't make them a power user.
they would need to at least use advanced features that aren't considered consumer, and at least do it in a business behaving way for me to consider them a power user.
So Scott's definition of Hobbyist is what the rest of us call a power user. OK - see Hobbyist, read power user - OK.. got it.
That's fine. Maybe that's how I see it. I see what you call a "power user" as a "normal user fooling around". Not a higher level in any IT or business context.
Then you leave no room for a normal user who doesn't fool around - and I believe that we need that distinction.
Scott's list
consumer - won't do anything other than buy form best buy
Hobbyist - will install DD-WRT on Best Buy junk
Power User - will install business class hardware at home
IT Pro - installs business class hardware at workme personally - a power user merges hobbyist and Scott's Power user def.
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Vendor and product selection and uses are one of the most important and fundamental aspects of IT and business. Hence why "advanced" behaviour there is what I call a power user.
Not just some kid playing with settings or being goofy. I think you guys are seeing the bench aspects of this and looking at networking and IT like someone might look at video gamers who build really nice gaming rigs. That might be power user in a bench or video game context but not an IT one.
If you look at routers as a gaming rig, then sure. But if you look at them in an IT context, then clearly not.
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
Vendor and product selection and uses are one of the most important and fundamental aspects of IT and business. Hence why "advanced" behaviour there is what I call a power user.
Not just some kid playing with settings or being goofy. I think you guys are seeing the bench aspects of this and looking at networking and IT like someone might look at video gamers who build really nice gaming rigs. That might be power user in a bench or video game context but not an IT one.
If you look at routers as a gaming rig, then sure. But if you look at them in an IT context, then clearly not.
Well - I'll have to give Scott this one - What we buy and why we buy it is one of the fundamental things that make a person an IT Pro.
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
If "features" are how you define power user, then I agree, DD-WRT is for power users and I'd define power users as a pointless definition that has a terrible name implying that they are heavier or more serious users, because features and more serious users don't go together.
So if my POS consumer router firmware doesn't allow me to forward ports, but DD-WRT unlocks this, it wouldn't be a power user feature?
Absolutely not. It just makes it a "better consumer product."
Just because some consumer gear is really bad, and some not so bad, doesn't mean that finding a way to make really bad stuff not so bad makes you a power user. It's still consumer features and gear in the end.
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@Dashrender said in DD-WRT:
@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
@Dashrender said in DD-WRT:
@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
@DustinB3403 said in DD-WRT:
A normal user won't setup their business with a VPN, service priorities etc. And if they can, their consumer POS may not offer it. So if they installed DD-WRT and set those things up on it, would you then consider that person as a power user?
No, I'd consider them a hobbyist. I think I've been clear and consistent on that. Those aren't advanced features, they are basic features that not all equipment exposes, but many do. It's stuff that entry level toy equipment for gaming offers, so absolutely not power user in any way. Just because someone did it for cheaper doesn't make them a power user.
they would need to at least use advanced features that aren't considered consumer, and at least do it in a business behaving way for me to consider them a power user.
So Scott's definition of Hobbyist is what the rest of us call a power user. OK - see Hobbyist, read power user - OK.. got it.
That's fine. Maybe that's how I see it. I see what you call a "power user" as a "normal user fooling around". Not a higher level in any IT or business context.
Then you leave no room for a normal user who doesn't fool around - and I believe that we need that distinction.
Scott's list
consumer - won't do anything other than buy form best buy
Hobbyist - will install DD-WRT on Best Buy junk
Power User - will install business class hardware at home
IT Pro - installs business class hardware at workme personally - a power user merges hobbyist and Scott's Power user def.
Hobbyist and consumer are the same to me, a category that doesn't matter to IT.
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
@Dashrender said in DD-WRT:
@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
@Dashrender said in DD-WRT:
@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
@DustinB3403 said in DD-WRT:
A normal user won't setup their business with a VPN, service priorities etc. And if they can, their consumer POS may not offer it. So if they installed DD-WRT and set those things up on it, would you then consider that person as a power user?
No, I'd consider them a hobbyist. I think I've been clear and consistent on that. Those aren't advanced features, they are basic features that not all equipment exposes, but many do. It's stuff that entry level toy equipment for gaming offers, so absolutely not power user in any way. Just because someone did it for cheaper doesn't make them a power user.
they would need to at least use advanced features that aren't considered consumer, and at least do it in a business behaving way for me to consider them a power user.
So Scott's definition of Hobbyist is what the rest of us call a power user. OK - see Hobbyist, read power user - OK.. got it.
That's fine. Maybe that's how I see it. I see what you call a "power user" as a "normal user fooling around". Not a higher level in any IT or business context.
Then you leave no room for a normal user who doesn't fool around - and I believe that we need that distinction.
Scott's list
consumer - won't do anything other than buy form best buy
Hobbyist - will install DD-WRT on Best Buy junk
Power User - will install business class hardware at home
IT Pro - installs business class hardware at workme personally - a power user merges hobbyist and Scott's Power user def.
Hobbyist and consumer are the same to me, a category that doesn't matter to IT.
And there lies the difference.
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
If "features" are how you define power user, then I agree, DD-WRT is for power users and I'd define power users as a pointless definition that has a terrible name implying that they are heavier or more serious users, because features and more serious users don't go together.
So if my POS consumer router firmware doesn't allow me to forward ports, but DD-WRT unlocks this, it wouldn't be a power user feature?
Absolutely not. It just makes it a "better consumer product."
Just because some consumer gear is really bad, and some not so bad, doesn't mean that finding a way to make really bad stuff not so bad makes you a power user. It's still consumer features and gear in the end.
I think that you're the only person here arguing that DD-WRT is consumer grade. We all understand that.
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One thing I definitely learned from this one, is that I'm going to buy my kids some used Dell servers for Christmas so they can put on their resumes that they are senior systems administrators by the time they're in middle school since owning something, instead of actually using it, defines what type of user you are.
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
If "features" are how you define power user, then I agree, DD-WRT is for power users and I'd define power users as a pointless definition that has a terrible name implying that they are heavier or more serious users, because features and more serious users don't go together.
So if my POS consumer router firmware doesn't allow me to forward ports, but DD-WRT unlocks this, it wouldn't be a power user feature?
Absolutely not. It just makes it a "better consumer product."
Just because some consumer gear is really bad, and some not so bad, doesn't mean that finding a way to make really bad stuff not so bad makes you a power user. It's still consumer features and gear in the end.
I think that you're the only person here arguing that DD-WRT is consumer grade. We all understand that.
He is the only person arguing that it must be consumer grade because any IT Pro would insist and purchase Ubiquiti, otherwise they must be a hobbyist since businesses can't have a "we can't afford to do business" level of thinking.
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One thing I definitely learned from this one, is that I'm going to buy my kids some used Dell servers for Christmas so they can put on their resumes that they are senior systems administrators by the time they're in middle school since owning something, instead of actually using it, defines what type of user you are.
Better get them off of Indian craigslist too and make sure they come pre-loaded with Ubuntu Desktop.
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Look at it from any other field. Let's say photography.
In photography, what you buy still matters, just like IT. As features matter, too.
There is consumer gear, this is what most people (consumers), use. Nothing wrong with that, most people are not power users in any field.
Then there are things that normal hobbyists do. They might get better consumer cameras, or flashier ones. They might tinker with the features on those cameras. But they are still using the same set of gear and features, and not approaching photography seriously. They find the camera interesting or whatever, and they like to play with it.
Then there are prosumers. They buy a different category of cameras, they treat them differently. They don't necessarily have "features" different from the consumer ones, but they work better. The "Advanced features" in this category come in the sense of speed, reliability, image quality, durability, etc. Power users in photography use those things as they differences, whereas IT uses reliability, performance, manageability, support, etc. Very similar things. This is the power user category.
Then there is truly pro gear. Again, same features. But often huge cost leaps and all of the reliability, performance, etc. improves again. Power users sometimes buy this gear because they can, but it generally doesn't make sense for non-full time professionals who don't depend on the gear for their livelihoods.
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
If "features" are how you define power user, then I agree, DD-WRT is for power users and I'd define power users as a pointless definition that has a terrible name implying that they are heavier or more serious users, because features and more serious users don't go together.
So if my POS consumer router firmware doesn't allow me to forward ports, but DD-WRT unlocks this, it wouldn't be a power user feature?
Absolutely not. It just makes it a "better consumer product."
Just because some consumer gear is really bad, and some not so bad, doesn't mean that finding a way to make really bad stuff not so bad makes you a power user. It's still consumer features and gear in the end.
I think that you're the only person here arguing that DD-WRT is consumer grade. We all understand that.
If you put a good OS on consumer grade hardware, it doesn't really matter how you see the OS.
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
Look at it from any other field. Let's say photography.
In photography, what you buy still matters, just like IT. As features matter, too.
There is consumer gear, this is what most people (consumers), use. Nothing wrong with that, most people are not power users in any field.Our professional photography people just purchased a GoPro camera and SD cards.
The camera itself is prosumer at best.
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One thing I definitely learned from this one, is that I'm going to buy my kids some used Dell servers for Christmas so they can put on their resumes that they are senior systems administrators by the time they're in middle school since owning something, instead of actually using it, defines what type of user you are.
So you totally missed everything. Remember when I said the choosing and acquiring process?
