DD-WRT
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
Business doesn't have a "but we can't afford to do business" tier, that's not how business works.
I've seen at least 1 business here make that very claim! Within the past week no less!
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@DustinB3403 said in DD-WRT:
You're going in circles. Is DD-WRT hobbiest, power user or non of the above and why?
Nope, my position never changed.
DD-WRT is for hobbiest or NON power users who need better or more features than they can get from the hardware pre-loaded at this price.
POWER USERS have to buy POWER USER class hardware or better.
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Let's reverse it.
"I want DD-WRT because I want to play with features, but I don't want them in business class way."
Perfect, that's who DD-WRT is for. Hobbyists, not power users. Nothing wrong with that. They just aren't the same thing.
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
I'd argue that it's "anti-power user". That's my underlying point. If you start with DD-WRT not being for power users, then the rest of it is obvious and common sense. I'm not sure what more explanation is needed.
If you believe it is for power users, and don't understand that I don't, then I can see why you feel my position doesn't make sense.
Bottom line... I see DD-WRT as a toy for people to play with. Nothing wrong with that, not at all a power user tool.I guess our definitions of power users aren't in line. I tend to agree with wikipedia on this one:
A power user or an experienced user is a computer user who uses advanced features of computer hardware,[1][2][3] operating systems,[4] programs,[5][6] or web sites[7] which are not used by the average user.DD-WRT certainly offers what me, and wikipedia, would call power-user features...
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
I'd argue that it's "anti-power user". That's my underlying point. If you start with DD-WRT not being for power users, then the rest of it is obvious and common sense. I'm not sure what more explanation is needed.
If you believe it is for power users, and don't understand that I don't, then I can see why you feel my position doesn't make sense.
Bottom line... I see DD-WRT as a toy for people to play with. Nothing wrong with that, not at all a power user tool.I guess our definitions of power users aren't in line. I tend to agree with wikipedia on this one:
A power user or an experienced user is a computer user who uses advanced features of computer hardware,[1][2][3] operating systems,[4] programs,[5][6] or web sites[7] which are not used by the average user.DD-WRT certainly offers what me, and wikipedia, would call power-user features...
I'd agree here and only would I disagree if a user in India installed DD-WRT because they wanted to "install DD-WRT to see how it works" that would classify them as a hobbyist.
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
I'd argue that it's "anti-power user". That's my underlying point. If you start with DD-WRT not being for power users, then the rest of it is obvious and common sense. I'm not sure what more explanation is needed.
If you believe it is for power users, and don't understand that I don't, then I can see why you feel my position doesn't make sense.
Bottom line... I see DD-WRT as a toy for people to play with. Nothing wrong with that, not at all a power user tool.I guess our definitions of power users aren't in line. I tend to agree with wikipedia on this one:
A power user or an experienced user is a computer user who uses advanced features of computer hardware,[1][2][3] operating systems,[4] programs,[5][6] or web sites[7] which are not used by the average user.DD-WRT certainly offers what me, and wikipedia, would call power-user features...
That's why I pointed out that I was saying this was not a power user way to use things.
I don't think anyone in IT actually uses that definition. We might agree with it, until we pointed it out in the real world then you'd say "oh gosh, no that's not what I was thinking."
If "features" are how you define power user, then I agree, DD-WRT is for power users and I'd define power users as a pointless definition that has a terrible name implying that they are heavier or more serious users, because features and more serious users don't go together.
In IT or business (two aspects of the same thing) I would define power users as people more "serious" with things like performance, stability, and support being the legitimate features in the context.. things that DD-WRT lacks.
Unless it is the "advanced" features bit. In which case, I'd say DD-WRT has the gimmick not advanced features. Again, not power user, just hobbyest.
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@DustinB3403 said in DD-WRT:
@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
I'd argue that it's "anti-power user". That's my underlying point. If you start with DD-WRT not being for power users, then the rest of it is obvious and common sense. I'm not sure what more explanation is needed.
If you believe it is for power users, and don't understand that I don't, then I can see why you feel my position doesn't make sense.
Bottom line... I see DD-WRT as a toy for people to play with. Nothing wrong with that, not at all a power user tool.I guess our definitions of power users aren't in line. I tend to agree with wikipedia on this one:
A power user or an experienced user is a computer user who uses advanced features of computer hardware,[1][2][3] operating systems,[4] programs,[5][6] or web sites[7] which are not used by the average user.DD-WRT certainly offers what me, and wikipedia, would call power-user features...
I'd agree here and only would I disagree if a user in India installed DD-WRT because they wanted to "install DD-WRT to see how it works" that would classify them as a hobbyist.
So if an American did the same thing for the same reason, they'd be a power user?
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
@DustinB3403 said in DD-WRT:
@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
I'd argue that it's "anti-power user". That's my underlying point. If you start with DD-WRT not being for power users, then the rest of it is obvious and common sense. I'm not sure what more explanation is needed.
If you believe it is for power users, and don't understand that I don't, then I can see why you feel my position doesn't make sense.
Bottom line... I see DD-WRT as a toy for people to play with. Nothing wrong with that, not at all a power user tool.I guess our definitions of power users aren't in line. I tend to agree with wikipedia on this one:
A power user or an experienced user is a computer user who uses advanced features of computer hardware,[1][2][3] operating systems,[4] programs,[5][6] or web sites[7] which are not used by the average user.DD-WRT certainly offers what me, and wikipedia, would call power-user features...
I'd agree here and only would I disagree if a user in India installed DD-WRT because they wanted to "install DD-WRT to see how it works" that would classify them as a hobbyist.
So if an American did the same thing for the same reason, they'd be a power user?
No, they'd also be a hobbyist. I was just using India as it was from the example above.
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
If "features" are how you define power user, then I agree, DD-WRT is for power users and I'd define power users as a pointless definition that has a terrible name implying that they are heavier or more serious users, because features and more serious users don't go together.
So if my POS consumer router firmware doesn't allow me to forward ports, but DD-WRT unlocks this, it wouldn't be a power user feature?
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
@DustinB3403 said in DD-WRT:
I'm genuinely trying to determine what you mean. What are third-world non-power users using if not the crap that comes pre-loaded?
I don't understand what he means either. I would argue that DD-WRT was solely created for power users (third-world, first, wherever) stuck (for whatever reason) with cheap consumer gear.
I'd argue that it's "anti-power user". That's my underlying point. If you start with DD-WRT not being for power users, then the rest of it is obvious and common sense. I'm not sure what more explanation is needed.
If you believe it is for power users, and don't understand that I don't, then I can see why you feel my position doesn't make sense.
Bottom line... I see DD-WRT as a toy for people to play with. Nothing wrong with that, not at all a power user tool.
So my question is - where is the line between power user and the next level up ? Heck, what do you call the next level up?
even better - make a listing of the levels of users for us.
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
I'd argue that it's "anti-power user". That's my underlying point. If you start with DD-WRT not being for power users, then the rest of it is obvious and common sense. I'm not sure what more explanation is needed.
If you believe it is for power users, and don't understand that I don't, then I can see why you feel my position doesn't make sense.
Bottom line... I see DD-WRT as a toy for people to play with. Nothing wrong with that, not at all a power user tool.I guess our definitions of power users aren't in line. I tend to agree with wikipedia on this one:
A power user or an experienced user is a computer user who uses advanced features of computer hardware,[1][2][3] operating systems,[4] programs,[5][6] or web sites[7] which are not used by the average user.DD-WRT certainly offers what me, and wikipedia, would call power-user features...
I simply don't agree. I don't believe that DD-WRT qualifies as more "advanced" by using it certainly can't qualify anyone as an "experienced user."
Wikipedia doesn't require "experience" when defining an "experienced user." I think we have to agree that the wikipedia definition isn't viable. It's a silly non-power user definition of what people who aren't power users imagine power users are doing. Rather than what power users or above would define. It sounds plausible on a casual read, but if you really look at it, it is, I feel, a pretty obviously useless definition.
Unless you REALLY work hard to say that advanced features mean very specific things that normal people would not think of.
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@Dashrender said in DD-WRT:
@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
@DustinB3403 said in DD-WRT:
I'm genuinely trying to determine what you mean. What are third-world non-power users using if not the crap that comes pre-loaded?
I don't understand what he means either. I would argue that DD-WRT was solely created for power users (third-world, first, wherever) stuck (for whatever reason) with cheap consumer gear.
I'd argue that it's "anti-power user". That's my underlying point. If you start with DD-WRT not being for power users, then the rest of it is obvious and common sense. I'm not sure what more explanation is needed.
If you believe it is for power users, and don't understand that I don't, then I can see why you feel my position doesn't make sense.
Bottom line... I see DD-WRT as a toy for people to play with. Nothing wrong with that, not at all a power user tool.
So my question is - where is the line between power user and the next level up ? Heck, what do you call the next level up?
even better - make a listing of the levels of users for us.
It's pretty easy, I think. Power user is someone who edges towards business use or professional use, but doesn't qualify as those things. It's someone who is using things significantly more seriously than a casual or normal user, but either not yet to the level of a business or professional; or just because they want to act in that way.
Like a home user who installs things in a business way, would be a power user. Their behaviour of "being like a real business" makes them go up a "level", but because they are still a home user, can't be qualified as a business.
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
I'd argue that it's "anti-power user". That's my underlying point. If you start with DD-WRT not being for power users, then the rest of it is obvious and common sense. I'm not sure what more explanation is needed.
If you believe it is for power users, and don't understand that I don't, then I can see why you feel my position doesn't make sense.
Bottom line... I see DD-WRT as a toy for people to play with. Nothing wrong with that, not at all a power user tool.I guess our definitions of power users aren't in line. I tend to agree with wikipedia on this one:
A power user or an experienced user is a computer user who uses advanced features of computer hardware,[1][2][3] operating systems,[4] programs,[5][6] or web sites[7] which are not used by the average user.DD-WRT certainly offers what me, and wikipedia, would call power-user features...
I simply don't agree. I don't believe that DD-WRT qualifies as more "advanced" by using it certainly can't qualify anyone as an "experienced user."
Wikipedia doesn't require "experience" when defining an "experienced user." I think we have to agree that the wikipedia definition isn't viable. It's a silly non-power user definition of what people who aren't power users imagine power users are doing. Rather than what power users or above would define. It sounds plausible on a casual read, but if you really look at it, it is, I feel, a pretty obviously useless definition.
Unless you REALLY work hard to say that advanced features mean very specific things that normal people would not think of.
A normal user won't setup their business with a VPN, service priorities etc. And if they can, their consumer POS may not offer it. So if they installed DD-WRT and set those things up on it, would you then consider that person as a power user?
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Example....
Hobbyiest: Installs DD-WRT at home because it is "cool."
Hobby Business: Installs DD-WRT at work because it is "cool" or they think they don't need entry point business approaches.
Power User: Installs UBNT ERL at home and treats it like a business.
Business: Installs UBNT ERL at work and treats it like a business. -
@DustinB3403 said in DD-WRT:
A normal user won't setup their business with a VPN, service priorities etc. And if they can, their consumer POS may not offer it. So if they installed DD-WRT and set those things up on it, would you then consider that person as a power user?
No, I'd consider them a hobbyist. I think I've been clear and consistent on that. Those aren't advanced features, they are basic features that not all equipment exposes, but many do. It's stuff that entry level toy equipment for gaming offers, so absolutely not power user in any way. Just because someone did it for cheaper doesn't make them a power user.
they would need to at least use advanced features that aren't considered consumer, and at least do it in a business behaving way for me to consider them a power user.
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
Example....
Hobbyiest: Installs DD-WRT at home because it is "cool."
Hobby Business: Installs DD-WRT at work because it is "cool" or they think they don't need entry point business approaches.
Power User: Installs UBNT ERL at home and treats it like a business.
Business: Installs UBNT ERL at work and treats it like a business.You're missing one critical point there.
Business do often make decisions that cost them absolutely zero additional capital! ALL. OF. THE. TIME.
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
Example....
Hobbyiest: Installs DD-WRT at home because it is "cool."
Hobby Business: Installs DD-WRT at work because it is "cool" or they think they don't need entry point business approaches.
Power User: Installs UBNT ERL at home and treats it like a business.
Business: Installs UBNT ERL at work and treats it like a business.This completely contradicts what you said above. Buying something and not implementing it's advanced features does NOT make you a power user. Simply buying an ERL does definitely NOT make you a power user. If I need to use something on the ERL that the consumer router can't do, that is what would make you a power user.
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@DustinB3403 said in DD-WRT:
@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
Example....
Hobbyiest: Installs DD-WRT at home because it is "cool."
Hobby Business: Installs DD-WRT at work because it is "cool" or they think they don't need entry point business approaches.
Power User: Installs UBNT ERL at home and treats it like a business.
Business: Installs UBNT ERL at work and treats it like a business.You're missing one critical point there.
Business do often make decisions that cost them absolutely zero additional capital! ALL. OF. THE. TIME.
Yes, and I qualify those decisions and hobby decisions ALL OF THE TIME.
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
@DustinB3403 said in DD-WRT:
A normal user won't setup their business with a VPN, service priorities etc. And if they can, their consumer POS may not offer it. So if they installed DD-WRT and set those things up on it, would you then consider that person as a power user?
No, I'd consider them a hobbyist. I think I've been clear and consistent on that. Those aren't advanced features, they are basic features that not all equipment exposes, but many do. It's stuff that entry level toy equipment for gaming offers, so absolutely not power user in any way. Just because someone did it for cheaper doesn't make them a power user.
they would need to at least use advanced features that aren't considered consumer, and at least do it in a business behaving way for me to consider them a power user.
So Scott's definition of Hobbyist is what the rest of us call a power user. OK - see Hobbyist, read power user - OK.. got it.
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@scottalanmiller said in DD-WRT:
Example....Hobbyiest: Installs DD-WRT at home because it is "cool."
Hobby Business: Installs DD-WRT at work because it is "cool" or they think they don't need entry point business approaches.
Power User: Installs UBNT ERL at home and treats it like a business.
Business: Installs UBNT ERL at work and treats it like a business.This completely contradicts what you said above. Buying something and not implementing it's advanced features does NOT make you a power user. Simply buying an ERL does definitely NOT make you a power user. If I need to use something on the ERL that the consumer router can't do, that is what would make you a power user.
I disagree. The ERL is an "advanced feature" itself in a business context here. No contradiction, it's exactly what I keep pointing out.
