StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!
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Yeah, @Dashrender would be best to just pay the original developer to extract the data (if they are still around).
SQL Admins can quickly get to the data and export a copy of the SQL database (I know how to do that even though I don't do it often).
But opening the database and doing the exports like you're asking would require some programming to create a connection to the database.
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@travisdh1 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
So I know I'm barking up the correct tree, why can't you just remove these ancient OS's from the mix?
I'm not there yet - but I do have an EHR system that doesn't work on Windows 10. I have to keep the medical records for at least 10 years (and for children until they turn 23). We stopped using this EHR in 2013, which means I have to maintain it until at least 2023, and really could be until 2036 if we saw a newborn in the last year we had that system.
In late 2019 I'll be setting up a small network completely isolated just for access to this old system. Today I have a small amount of Win7 machines scattered around our practice, but soon enough it will be just one (yeah I could VLAN it, but meh, I'd really rather not).
No way to extract the data?
Of course there - for a fee. Ultimately we will end up likely extracting the children's data so we don't have to maintain it beyond 2013.
You don't have access to your own data without paying for it?
No one here knows how to extra the data - we do have access to the data - it's in MS SQL - so either I spend time learning how to do SQL things - taking away time from other duties and being super slow about it (ok well I did say we have plenty of time) or we pay someone who know what they are doing to learn how it all interconnects and then extract the data into some other usable format.
The usable format is likely the challenging part.
Someone is going to have to figure out how all the data relates. That's going to take time, even for someone who knows SQL.
Exactly. Do we have access to the data - yes.
Do we have a way to meaningfully access that data other than the vendor's provided application? - No
What would it take to get meaningful access to the data? - hire someone to learn to understand the current DB structure and create data exports - be it via a modern app accessing the current SQL DB, or via output to a PDF - either would likely be fine.
How much would this cost? - who the hell knows? -
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Yeah, @Dashrender would be best to just pay the original developer to extract the data (if they are still around).
SQL Admins can quickly get to the data and export a copy of the SQL database (I know how to do that even though I don't do it often).
But opening the database and doing the exports like you're asking would require some programming to create a connection to the database.
They aren't - but I do have a contact that was in the support team, and DB support was one of his functions... I know he could do the export for me, again, no clue on what it would cost.
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@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
So I know I'm barking up the correct tree, why can't you just remove these ancient OS's from the mix?
I'm not there yet - but I do have an EHR system that doesn't work on Windows 10. I have to keep the medical records for at least 10 years (and for children until they turn 23). We stopped using this EHR in 2013, which means I have to maintain it until at least 2023, and really could be until 2036 if we saw a newborn in the last year we had that system.
In late 2019 I'll be setting up a small network completely isolated just for access to this old system. Today I have a small amount of Win7 machines scattered around our practice, but soon enough it will be just one (yeah I could VLAN it, but meh, I'd really rather not).
No way to extract the data?
Of course there - for a fee. Ultimately we will end up likely extracting the children's data so we don't have to maintain it beyond 2013.
You don't have access to your own data without paying for it?
No one here knows how to extra the data - we do have access to the data - it's in MS SQL - so either I spend time learning how to do SQL things - taking away time from other duties and being super slow about it (ok well I did say we have plenty of time) or we pay someone who know what they are doing to learn how it all interconnects and then extract the data into some other usable format.
The usable format is likely the challenging part.
For legacy data, pulling it out into a document format is likely not very challenging.
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@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
So I know I'm barking up the correct tree, why can't you just remove these ancient OS's from the mix?
I'm not there yet - but I do have an EHR system that doesn't work on Windows 10. I have to keep the medical records for at least 10 years (and for children until they turn 23). We stopped using this EHR in 2013, which means I have to maintain it until at least 2023, and really could be until 2036 if we saw a newborn in the last year we had that system.
In late 2019 I'll be setting up a small network completely isolated just for access to this old system. Today I have a small amount of Win7 machines scattered around our practice, but soon enough it will be just one (yeah I could VLAN it, but meh, I'd really rather not).
No way to extract the data?
Of course there - for a fee. Ultimately we will end up likely extracting the children's data so we don't have to maintain it beyond 2013.
You don't have access to your own data without paying for it?
They do, they don't have a way to easily extract the data from this system in a reasonably usable format without paying a fee.
How do they have access and can't extract data. Access = ability to extract.
In a usable format is the key.
What format can it be in that is not usable? The data is in a database. You extra it as it is. While someone could be obfuscating the data, that's not realistic.
Scott - while handing you a MS SQL DB might allow you to access that data in some type of usable fashion - no one here is able to do so, including me.
we'd likely want the data exported into PDFs - one per patient.
Also - there is data in TIFs that are serialized, where the linking between TIF name and patient is in the DB - so that data would need to be pulled into the output PDFs as well.That's all pretty basic stuff. I'm not saying that just anyone can do it, I'm just saying that it's not a hard task. And it's probably much cheaper than maintaining the old system. And doens't actually have to be done, necessarily, until later and only if it comes up.
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@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Yeah, @Dashrender would be best to just pay the original developer to extract the data (if they are still around).
SQL Admins can quickly get to the data and export a copy of the SQL database (I know how to do that even though I don't do it often).
But opening the database and doing the exports like you're asking would require some programming to create a connection to the database.
There are built in tools for doing exactly that.
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@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@travisdh1 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
So I know I'm barking up the correct tree, why can't you just remove these ancient OS's from the mix?
I'm not there yet - but I do have an EHR system that doesn't work on Windows 10. I have to keep the medical records for at least 10 years (and for children until they turn 23). We stopped using this EHR in 2013, which means I have to maintain it until at least 2023, and really could be until 2036 if we saw a newborn in the last year we had that system.
In late 2019 I'll be setting up a small network completely isolated just for access to this old system. Today I have a small amount of Win7 machines scattered around our practice, but soon enough it will be just one (yeah I could VLAN it, but meh, I'd really rather not).
No way to extract the data?
Of course there - for a fee. Ultimately we will end up likely extracting the children's data so we don't have to maintain it beyond 2013.
You don't have access to your own data without paying for it?
No one here knows how to extra the data - we do have access to the data - it's in MS SQL - so either I spend time learning how to do SQL things - taking away time from other duties and being super slow about it (ok well I did say we have plenty of time) or we pay someone who know what they are doing to learn how it all interconnects and then extract the data into some other usable format.
The usable format is likely the challenging part.
Someone is going to have to figure out how all the data relates. That's going to take time, even for someone who knows SQL.
Exactly. Do we have access to the data - yes.
Relational data is the meaningful data I was asking about. I would consider that even more meaningful than the application because the application doesn't still work, but the DB does.
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@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Yeah, @Dashrender would be best to just pay the original developer to extract the data (if they are still around).
SQL Admins can quickly get to the data and export a copy of the SQL database (I know how to do that even though I don't do it often).
But opening the database and doing the exports like you're asking would require some programming to create a connection to the database.
There are built in tools for doing exactly that.
For large enough solutions, yea. At an old job I had to use a tool for the JobBOSS software they ran to open an old database to get some info.
Wasn't overly difficult, but it was built for that database. A generic tool may not work, besides just exporting a database use MS SQL.
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@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
What would it take to get meaningful access to the data? - hire someone to learn to understand the current DB structure and create data exports - be it via a modern app accessing the current SQL DB, or via output to a PDF - either would likely be fine.
How much would this cost? - who the hell knows?How much does it cost not to?
Having that done seems like part of the original purchase decision. It's just part of the cost of having chosen that software. So it seems like someone thought it was affordable when they decided on it initially. Or felt that it was so needed or cheap that any further thought was unnecessary - same difference.
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@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Yeah, @Dashrender would be best to just pay the original developer to extract the data (if they are still around).
SQL Admins can quickly get to the data and export a copy of the SQL database (I know how to do that even though I don't do it often).
But opening the database and doing the exports like you're asking would require some programming to create a connection to the database.
There are built in tools for doing exactly that.
For large enough solutions, yea. At an old job I had to use a tool for the JobBOSS software they ran to open an old database to get some info.
Wasn't overly difficult, but it was built for that database. A generic tool may not work, besides just exporting a database use MS SQL.
SQL Server includes built in tools for extraction.
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Think of the alternative... how much hardware and man hours are going into working around extracting the data?
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@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Think of the alternative... how much hardware and man hours are going into working around extracting the data?
No where near as much as reverse engineering the database to create the output needed.
This is something I have done more than one time. It is not that easy.
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@JaredBusch said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Think of the alternative... how much hardware and man hours are going into working around extracting the data?
No where near as much as reverse engineering the database to create the output needed.
This is something I have done more than one time. It is not that easy.
Depends on the database. But it's something we do from time to time and often is pretty basic. I mean days of work, yes. But maintaining all that stuff is also days of work, plus the cost of hardware, isolation, risk, etc. On top of maintaining all that old stuff, we assume that there is no support should something break, either.
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@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
I mean days of work, yes.
Not even close.
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@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Yeah, @Dashrender would be best to just pay the original developer to extract the data (if they are still around).
SQL Admins can quickly get to the data and export a copy of the SQL database (I know how to do that even though I don't do it often).
But opening the database and doing the exports like you're asking would require some programming to create a connection to the database.
There are built in tools for doing exactly that.
What do you mean built in tools?
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@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Yeah, @Dashrender would be best to just pay the original developer to extract the data (if they are still around).
SQL Admins can quickly get to the data and export a copy of the SQL database (I know how to do that even though I don't do it often).
But opening the database and doing the exports like you're asking would require some programming to create a connection to the database.
There are built in tools for doing exactly that.
What do you mean built in tools?
SQL manager allows you to export the database.
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@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
What would it take to get meaningful access to the data? - hire someone to learn to understand the current DB structure and create data exports - be it via a modern app accessing the current SQL DB, or via output to a PDF - either would likely be fine.
How much would this cost? - who the hell knows?How much does it cost not to?
Having that done seems like part of the original purchase decision. It's just part of the cost of having chosen that software. So it seems like someone thought it was affordable when they decided on it initially. Or felt that it was so needed or cheap that any further thought was unnecessary - same difference.
I know you likely consider every single possibility when you buy something, but alas most do not. When this EHR was picked - it was never considered - what if this company folds up and blows away - what will it cost to export our data? Should they - of course they should, but do they, yeah no.
so in the end they just end up complaining about it, and dealing with it when the time arises. -
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
What would it take to get meaningful access to the data? - hire someone to learn to understand the current DB structure and create data exports - be it via a modern app accessing the current SQL DB, or via output to a PDF - either would likely be fine.
How much would this cost? - who the hell knows?How much does it cost not to?
well - one answer would be - to maintain a virtual system until the data is no longer needed. So you ask - what will that take?
It will take a server running a VM platform that will support Windows 2012R2 and Windows 7 until 2036, or exporting the data into a usable situation.
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@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@Dashrender said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@DustinB3403 said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Yeah, @Dashrender would be best to just pay the original developer to extract the data (if they are still around).
SQL Admins can quickly get to the data and export a copy of the SQL database (I know how to do that even though I don't do it often).
But opening the database and doing the exports like you're asking would require some programming to create a connection to the database.
There are built in tools for doing exactly that.
What do you mean built in tools?
SQL manager allows you to export the database.
SQL Server Management Studio allows you do do things.
Exporting a database is not one of them.
You can backup a database. That does you no good. The data is still the data.
You can Generate Scripts and include the data. This again, does you no good. The data is still the data.
You can use SQL Server Integration Services to create an export package, table by table. This again does you no good, as the data is still locked into the various tables it was in.
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@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@JaredBusch said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
@scottalanmiller said in StarWind V2V Converter: Now with Physical to Virtual (P2V) conversion option!:
Think of the alternative... how much hardware and man hours are going into working around extracting the data?
No where near as much as reverse engineering the database to create the output needed.
This is something I have done more than one time. It is not that easy.
Depends on the database. But it's something we do from time to time and often is pretty basic. I mean days of work, yes. But maintaining all that stuff is also days of work, plus the cost of hardware, isolation, risk, etc. On top of maintaining all that old stuff, we assume that there is no support should something break, either.
The system is basically in a static state. So if it breaks - restore to a known good working state and move on.
The problem I see running into over time is hardware and hypervisor tech that can support this until the kill date of 2036.
we can manually use the built system to do what is called a CCD export of the children's files - while this will be extremely manual in nature, it will likely be less expensive than hiring NTG or whomever to learn the DB layouts and extract the desired data.
