XCP-ng pricing
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@dustinb3403 said in XCP-ng pricing:
@danp said in XCP-ng pricing:
Looks like Olivier is still wanting to go with per host pricing.
Just means it's not supported in the SMB market, is all.
That survey makes no sense and basically tells me they aren't even going to talk to customers, let alone listen. The decision is made and they are using the survey to pretend to have looked into it.
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I think the bottom line is... with per host licensing, no one is going to take them seriously. The SMB market will not be willing to get screwed to supplement the big boys. The big boys will realize that their support will be shit because they don't make any money on them. It's a big statement that you don't want to buy support here. The lack of customer empathy is a major issue. It feels like they are totally disconnected and not thinking about their customers.
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@scottalanmiller said in XCP-ng pricing:
@dustinb3403 said in XCP-ng pricing:
@danp said in XCP-ng pricing:
Looks like Olivier is still wanting to go with per host pricing.
Just means it's not supported in the SMB market, is all.
That survey makes no sense and basically tells me they aren't even going to talk to customers, let alone listen. The decision is made and they are using the survey to pretend to have looked into it.
Which literally means the community version is the only real option, albeit with community support.
I specifically spoke (via chat message) and told him how simple core licensing is and makes sense. The fact that he posted the same questions as a survey is just damning for the project of XCP-ng and XO.
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@dustinb3403 said in XCP-ng pricing:
@scottalanmiller said in XCP-ng pricing:
@dustinb3403 said in XCP-ng pricing:
@danp said in XCP-ng pricing:
Looks like Olivier is still wanting to go with per host pricing.
Just means it's not supported in the SMB market, is all.
That survey makes no sense and basically tells me they aren't even going to talk to customers, let alone listen. The decision is made and they are using the survey to pretend to have looked into it.
Which literally means the community version is the only real option, albeit with community support.
Yes, absolutely. The product will have to be absurdly expensive for the SMB market to have any hopes of making money in the SME market. The only way for that model to work is to price for companies that fit into a middle ground and are not in a position to skew their support purchases to game the pricing model.
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Would something like this be a reasonable way of pricing XCP-ng?
Screenshot from Proxmox Subscription Pricing website.
Proxmox subscriptions are licensed per physical server and CPU socket.
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@black3dynamite said in XCP-ng pricing:
Would something like this be a reasonable way of pricing XCP-ng?
Screenshot from Proxmox Subscription Pricing website.
Proxmox subscriptions are licensed per physical server and CPU socket.Is there a link that shows what support they are planning to provide, what it includes, and if there are any different levels of support?
It's really hard to imagine pricing of some support service I don't know anything about.
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Is the pricing by CPU or socket or populated socket? Those are three different metrics.
A socket may or may not have a chip in it. A chip may have one or more CPUs on it. Rare to do that, but calling something a CPU socket is very confusing as chip carriers go in sockets, not chips themselves.
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@obsolesce said in XCP-ng pricing:
@black3dynamite said in XCP-ng pricing:
Would something like this be a reasonable way of pricing XCP-ng?
Screenshot from Proxmox Subscription Pricing website.
Proxmox subscriptions are licensed per physical server and CPU socket.Is there a link that shows what support they are planning to provide, what it includes, and if there are any different levels of support?
It's really hard to imagine pricing of some support service I don't know anything about.
I haven't found any detailed info on their site or forums.
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@black3dynamite That appears to charge based on the amount of available CPU's that could go into a host.
That approach is similar to what many businesses do. Microsoft obviously has dumped this idea though and gone with core counting and a minimum number of cores.
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@dustinb3403 said in XCP-ng pricing:
@black3dynamite That appears to charge based on the amount of available CPU's that could go into a host.
Microsoft obviously has dumped this idea though and gone with core counting and a minimum number of cores.
And this is the best way to do it. Any other way doesn't make sense.
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@obsolesce This is what I found so far from their subscription agreement.
https://www.proxmox.com/en/downloads/item/proxmox-ve-subscription-agreement
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@dustinb3403 So you think only your opinion matters on what the pricing should be? You dont pay for their backup software, you dont pay for XS license, you arent their target audience for their support product either.
This project wouldnt even exist without Citrix essentially abandoning XS(or whatever they started calling it this week) and charging people for things like the ability to do live storage migrations.
This is meant for people who want to keep using something like XS but not pay for standard hypervisor features, just support. If youre comfortable supporting this hypervisor yourself you can just skip out on buying support from them, or get it when you need it.
Far as pricing goes, as long as it is cheaper than an Enterprise License XS per socket, and the support is competent, it is worth it for their intended audience, ie people willing to spend money for support.
They are essentially selling what XS licensing was up until 2018. Full featured for free, pay for support. -
@momurda said in XCP-ng pricing:
@dustinb3403 So you think only your opinion matters on what the pricing should be? You dont pay for their backup software, you dont pay for XS license, you arent their target audience for their support product either.
The target audience is SME space, which I currently work in. Just because I support and recommend the community edition of different projects, doesn't justify your stance of "only your opinion matters".
Pricing globally for any major software or OS or even hypervisor vendor is based on core counting to appropriately license a client entirely.
This project wouldnt even exist without Citrix essentially abandoning XS(or whatever they started calling it this week) and charging people for things like the ability to do live storage migrations.
Doesn't matter with the point of this conversation. . .
This is meant for people who want to keep using something like XS but not pay for standard hypervisor features, just support. If youre comfortable supporting this hypervisor yourself you can just skip out on buying support from them, or get it when you need it.
XS is still priced at $345/socket on xenserver.org (Socket pricing, which is still a better approach for Olivier not getting hosed on a customer who would abuse the Per Host rate)
https://xenserver.org/discuss-virtualization/get-support.html
Far as pricing goes, as long as it is cheaper than an Enterprise License XS per socket, and the support is competent, it is worth it for their intended audience, ie people willing to spend money for support.
They are essentially selling what XS licensing was up until 2018. Full featured for free, pay for support.You hope, have you ever looked at the support costs for xenserver?
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@dustinb3403 said in XCP-ng pricing:
@black3dynamite That appears to charge based on the amount of available CPU's that could go into a host.
Sounds that way, but seems unlikely.
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@dustinb3403 said in XCP-ng pricing:
That approach is similar to what many businesses do. Microsoft obviously has dumped this idea though and gone with core counting and a minimum number of cores.
MS always did it on the number that did go in, not the number that could.
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@scottalanmiller said in XCP-ng pricing:
@dustinb3403 said in XCP-ng pricing:
That approach is similar to what many businesses do. Microsoft obviously has dumped this idea though and gone with core counting and a minimum number of cores.
MS always did it on the number that did go in, not the number that could.
I know this, I was discussing the screenshot that was posted. MS only charged for what was used.
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@momurda said in XCP-ng pricing:
So you think only your opinion matters on what the pricing should be? You dont pay for their backup software, you dont pay for XS license, you arent their target audience for their support product either.
This is ridiculous. If they were going to monetize this project so heavily they should have skipped the kickstarter phase.
Why can't @DustinB3403 care about the product and want the best of both worlds? This idea is in it's infancy and now is the best time to try influencing the creators. If they don't want input then they shouldn't be asking for it.
IMO it's crazy to just say "f#%$ you" to the entire SMB market. I'm certainly not going to pay $4000 a year, each, for both of my 4-core hosts. I'd like to support the project somehow but I don't think I'll be able to convince my boss to just donate money to them either lol If I can say this will cost us $500 a year and we'll get 3 tickets a year (using proxmox's plan/pricing), then I can at least present that without sounding insane.
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The argument I'm trying to make is 1) protect olivier from the customers that would abuse the support and 2) make it so that the good customers (big and small) don't get raked over the coals.
Which likely means a per-core cost (or per host* (really doesn't make sense)) and some sort of tiered support plans, like @bnrstnr 4 tickets a year or some such system.
Which is highly effective, cost wise for everyone. Olivier won't get rapped by shitty customers, and customers can up their support level to "Please wipe my ass Tier" if they so choose.
