Hypervisor choice
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@dashrender said in Hypervisor choice:
ESXi Essentials gets zero support also at the $500 and $100/yr prices. Support costs more.
Yup, he'd have to step up to Essentials Plus for basic support. Which takes the price from $560 to $5,439. . . Big jump for basic support.
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Which if you're stepping up in levels, you're paying more (and still lacking possible features).
So why not use a free hypervisor, and get third party support.
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Alternatively he could do a VMware vSphere Essentials Plus Kit Term which is a 1 year cost and spend $2,740 annually.
Which could be worthwhile, especially if support is needed to address an issue.
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@dustinb3403 said in Hypervisor choice:
@dashrender said in Hypervisor choice:
ESXi Essentials gets zero support also at the $500 and $100/yr prices. Support costs more.
Yup, he'd have to step up to Essentials Plus for basic support. Which takes the price from $560 to $5,439. . . Big jump for basic support.
WHAT? OK I really don't know if Essentials Plus includes basic support, but you don't need that - paying per call is acceptable in this case. When I last looked (3 years ago) a single call in ticket was like $250.
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@jfath said in Hypervisor choice:
@dashrender said in Hypervisor choice:
IF money is going to be spent, and you have a separate backup solution already, I'm seriously wondering why ESXi Essentials isn't the go to option here?
IF money isn't going to be spent, well, then the choice of free options is what it is.
Definitely an option. A big part of this problem is trying to spec a solution with complete uncertainty about future budget. Maybe, there will be money to spend this year but maybe not next year so I need a fall back in that case. At least Essentials doesn't cease to function if they don't buy support next year, and the free HTML5 client is getting better.
In the for-profit sector this would be unacceptable - even when I was involved in small tech startups on very tight budgets, we understood there was a certain IT cost involved in doing business efficiently. Unfortunately, a less tech-savy group, especially a non-profit, may not have that understanding so free is often the goal.
This is why open source is good... guarantees that you don't have sudden price risks tomorrow.
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@jfath said in Hypervisor choice:
And $349 for non-profit - wow. That's going to be hard to beat.
Seems like $350 wasted. Doesn't sound hard to beat at all.
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@jfath said in Hypervisor choice:
And $349 for non-profit - wow. That's going to be hard to beat.
Remember, you get no support with that. So that's $350 lost, and you get essentially nothing for it. KVM gives you more for free.
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@dustinb3403 said in Hypervisor choice:
Alternatively he could do a VMware vSphere Essentials Plus Kit Term which is a 1 year cost and spend $2,740 annually.
Which could be worthwhile, especially if support is needed to address an issue.
Assuming this comes with unlimited support - I suppose so.
But clearly his business doesn't need that level of support. He's stated that they are closed weekends, nights so he has downtime when they can deal with things. A single call or two budgeted in might be wise, but probably mostly go unused.
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@scottalanmiller said in Hypervisor choice:
@jfath said in Hypervisor choice:
And $349 for non-profit - wow. That's going to be hard to beat.
Remember, you get no support with that. So that's $350 lost, and you get essentially nothing for it. KVM gives you more for free.
Does it though? An easy to use interface? HTML5 access, etc? I'm asking I have no clue, never used it.
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@dashrender said in Hypervisor choice:
@scottalanmiller said in Hypervisor choice:
@jfath said in Hypervisor choice:
And $349 for non-profit - wow. That's going to be hard to beat.
Remember, you get no support with that. So that's $350 lost, and you get essentially nothing for it. KVM gives you more for free.
Does it though? An easy to use interface? HTML5 access, etc? I'm asking I have no clue, never used it.
There is no support at all for their basic levels. Only when you move up to the Plus plans do you get any support.
An interface is not support.
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@dustinb3403 said in Hypervisor choice:
@dashrender said in Hypervisor choice:
@scottalanmiller said in Hypervisor choice:
@jfath said in Hypervisor choice:
And $349 for non-profit - wow. That's going to be hard to beat.
Remember, you get no support with that. So that's $350 lost, and you get essentially nothing for it. KVM gives you more for free.
Does it though? An easy to use interface? HTML5 access, etc? I'm asking I have no clue, never used it.
There is no support at all for their basic levels. Only when you move up to the Plus plans do you get any support.
An interface is not support.
You're conflating two things.
We've moved onto support for some reason, even though that wasn't part of the OPs original request. He's moving away from Hyper-V because no more 5Nines at a price he's willing to pay. He wanted Single Pane of Glass management
Now maybe he's happy managing XS/XO. If he is, then he's golden. If he's not, well he has other options.
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@dashrender said in Hypervisor choice:
@dustinb3403 said in Hypervisor choice:
@dashrender said in Hypervisor choice:
@scottalanmiller said in Hypervisor choice:
@jfath said in Hypervisor choice:
And $349 for non-profit - wow. That's going to be hard to beat.
Remember, you get no support with that. So that's $350 lost, and you get essentially nothing for it. KVM gives you more for free.
Does it though? An easy to use interface? HTML5 access, etc? I'm asking I have no clue, never used it.
There is no support at all for their basic levels. Only when you move up to the Plus plans do you get any support.
An interface is not support.
You're conflating two things.
We've moved onto support for some reason, even though that wasn't part of the OPs original request. He's moving away from Hyper-V because no more 5Nines at a price he's willing to pay. He wanted Single Pane of Glass management
Now maybe he's happy managing XS/XO. If he is, then he's golden. If he's not, well he has other options.
There is no confusion here, does community support exist for the free edition of ESXi (or even the basic lowest tier)? If not paying for anything not supported that has no support avenue at all is wasted money.
The issue being missed here is what if he does have 3 tickets a year (or over 3 years) and has no support contract (or 3rd party vendor) and no community support.
Then the business is out $750 which would be more than the cost of basic support.
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He mentioned something about budgeting for XOA, do the XO people only support XOA or do they also support XS issues as well?
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@bnrstnr said in Hypervisor choice:
He mentioned something about budgeting for XOA, do the XO people only support XOA or do they also support XS issues as well?
To an extent XOA team will assist with XS issues. As in "The issue is with XS, not XOA". But there is community support available for both XO and XS.
So in a case like this, there are avenues to turn too.
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Ya I'd just pay the $400 for 5nines and be done with it.
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Actually started with the free 5Nine and then purchased a license. It expired though it still shows on my account.
It was worth the $$ to have the full function. Probably won't purchase again. Hyper-V manager works fine IMO. -
If you can get 5nine or hyperv manager working with hyperv host lol
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Although official support would be great (of course), I'm more concerned with a decent size user base, good documentation, and availability of configuration and troubleshooting information on the Web. VMware's pervasive presence makes it appealing in these areas. But, XS and KVM are also very well known and community support seems good.
After considering the options everyone has presented, I'm going to install and test KVM on a spare server, then move forward with either that or XS/XO. I think the value of an open source solution is the deciding factor for me in this particular case.
It does make me feel like less of a dunce that there are differing opinions even amongst smart, experienced IT guys like the group offering help here on ML
I really appreciate all of the effort, information, and suggestions - thank you! -
@jfath said in Hypervisor choice:
I'm more concerned with a decent size user base....
I often consider this a negative. Big user base normally means bad user base and harder to get good support and advice. You want a moderately small, but skilled user base for best results.
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@jfath said in Hypervisor choice:
After considering the options everyone has presented, I'm going to install and test KVM on a spare server, then move forward with either that or XS/XO. I think the value of an open source solution is the deciding factor for me in this particular case.
Their userbases are certainly "big enough" which is the important part.
