XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective
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@Danp said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@stacksofplates said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
That's also limited to two nodes. And fairly susceptible to split brain.
Is it? I know it supports 2-node deployments, but didn't realize it was limited to 2 nodes.
Found the answer here:
When running HA-Lizard there are no restrictions on how many hosts are part of the pool. So, in your example a 3-node pool is fully supported.
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@stacksofplates said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@DustinB3403 said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@BRRABill said in 5Nine Free Hyper-V Manager No Long Available:
@scottalanmiller said in 5Nine Free Hyper-V Manager No Long Available:
@DustinB3403 said in 5Nine Free Hyper-V Manager No Long Available:
Flat out saying it "cost to much to take your money" is literally turning customers away.
It is, but it is also turning away small customers that might not be profitable and what they have to consider is the risk that this poses to bigger customers. I don't agree with the approach, but they have sound logic for why they do what they do. All customers are not good customers.
If I remember the conversation correctly (we went through all of this with @olivier on a ML thread) that was the crux of it, that it cost too much to support the smaller clients, since they don't have that many people.
The issue that I have with this is that if you have the staff to support XS, why would you need olivier to support it? Olivier's job would stop at XOA (unless it was an XOSAN) installation.
Which if the goal is to support XS and XOSAN than the pricing model still doesn't make sense as there are other products that do what XOSAN does and are further along in development.
Uh what other VSAs are there for XenServer?
DRBD and Starwind, for example. DRBD is not VSA, it's just RLS. You don't actually want VSA if you can help it. Starwind is VSA as a fallback. On Hyper-V, it's not a VSA, it's native.
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@Danp said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@stacksofplates said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
That's also limited to two nodes. And fairly susceptible to split brain.
Is it? I know it supports 2-node deployments, but didn't realize it was limited to 2 nodes.
Sorry. With local it's two nodes. With iscsi you can do more.
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@DustinB3403 said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
What you don't get with HA-Lizard is the SPoG
Took me a few minutes to figure that one out. Kept thinking "single point of" something.
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@stacksofplates said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@DustinB3403 said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@stacksofplates If by VSA you mean Virtual SAN Appliance there is Starwind. (having a brain fart)
That requires separate windows servers. There isn't really anything that competes with XOSAN for XenServer at all.
By definition, a VSA always requires a VM of some sort. Starwind's Xen VSA that doesn't use Windows is coming. It's publicly announced.
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@Danp said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
There's also HA-Lizard.
That's just DRBD. It's not RLS itself and not VSA at all.
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@scottalanmiller said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@stacksofplates said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@DustinB3403 said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@stacksofplates If by VSA you mean Virtual SAN Appliance there is Starwind. (having a brain fart)
That requires separate windows servers. There isn't really anything that competes with XOSAN for XenServer at all.
By definition, a VSA always requires a VM of some sort. Starwind's Xen VSA that doesn't use Windows is coming. It's publicly announced.
Ya. I meant right now physically separate Windows systems.
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@Danp said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@stacksofplates said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
That's also limited to two nodes. And fairly susceptible to split brain.
Is it? I know it supports 2-node deployments, but didn't realize it was limited to 2 nodes.
DRBD is inherently a two node system. It's RAID 1 only. You CAN do more nodes with it, but they would be RAID 1 so the scaling would be terrible unless you manually segmented the storage, which you could do.
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@Danp said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@DustinB3403 said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
What you don't get with HA-Lizard is the SPoG
Took me a few minutes to figure that one out. Kept thinking "single point of" something.
I still don't know what it is.
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@scottalanmiller said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@stacksofplates said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@DustinB3403 said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@BRRABill said in 5Nine Free Hyper-V Manager No Long Available:
@scottalanmiller said in 5Nine Free Hyper-V Manager No Long Available:
@DustinB3403 said in 5Nine Free Hyper-V Manager No Long Available:
Flat out saying it "cost to much to take your money" is literally turning customers away.
It is, but it is also turning away small customers that might not be profitable and what they have to consider is the risk that this poses to bigger customers. I don't agree with the approach, but they have sound logic for why they do what they do. All customers are not good customers.
If I remember the conversation correctly (we went through all of this with @olivier on a ML thread) that was the crux of it, that it cost too much to support the smaller clients, since they don't have that many people.
The issue that I have with this is that if you have the staff to support XS, why would you need olivier to support it? Olivier's job would stop at XOA (unless it was an XOSAN) installation.
Which if the goal is to support XS and XOSAN than the pricing model still doesn't make sense as there are other products that do what XOSAN does and are further along in development.
Uh what other VSAs are there for XenServer?
DRBD and Starwind, for example. DRBD is not VSA, it's just RLS. You don't actually want VSA if you can help it. Starwind is VSA as a fallback. On Hyper-V, it's not a VSA, it's native.
That's kind of what I was getting at. There isn't a solution that's as easy to deploy as XO for this. Small shops most likely won't have the time spent to manage a DRBD setup, esp if something goes wrong.
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@scottalanmiller Single Pane of Glass
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@stacksofplates said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@scottalanmiller said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@stacksofplates said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@DustinB3403 said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@BRRABill said in 5Nine Free Hyper-V Manager No Long Available:
@scottalanmiller said in 5Nine Free Hyper-V Manager No Long Available:
@DustinB3403 said in 5Nine Free Hyper-V Manager No Long Available:
Flat out saying it "cost to much to take your money" is literally turning customers away.
It is, but it is also turning away small customers that might not be profitable and what they have to consider is the risk that this poses to bigger customers. I don't agree with the approach, but they have sound logic for why they do what they do. All customers are not good customers.
If I remember the conversation correctly (we went through all of this with @olivier on a ML thread) that was the crux of it, that it cost too much to support the smaller clients, since they don't have that many people.
The issue that I have with this is that if you have the staff to support XS, why would you need olivier to support it? Olivier's job would stop at XOA (unless it was an XOSAN) installation.
Which if the goal is to support XS and XOSAN than the pricing model still doesn't make sense as there are other products that do what XOSAN does and are further along in development.
Uh what other VSAs are there for XenServer?
DRBD and Starwind, for example. DRBD is not VSA, it's just RLS. You don't actually want VSA if you can help it. Starwind is VSA as a fallback. On Hyper-V, it's not a VSA, it's native.
That's kind of what I was getting at. There isn't a solution that's as easy to deploy as XO for this. Small shops most likely won't have the time spent to manage a DRBD setup, esp if something goes wrong.
Small shops are probably topping at two nodes and using StarWinds for free on Hyper-V.
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@Danp said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@scottalanmiller Single Pane of Glass
OH!
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@Dashrender said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@stacksofplates said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@scottalanmiller said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@stacksofplates said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@DustinB3403 said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@BRRABill said in 5Nine Free Hyper-V Manager No Long Available:
@scottalanmiller said in 5Nine Free Hyper-V Manager No Long Available:
@DustinB3403 said in 5Nine Free Hyper-V Manager No Long Available:
Flat out saying it "cost to much to take your money" is literally turning customers away.
It is, but it is also turning away small customers that might not be profitable and what they have to consider is the risk that this poses to bigger customers. I don't agree with the approach, but they have sound logic for why they do what they do. All customers are not good customers.
If I remember the conversation correctly (we went through all of this with @olivier on a ML thread) that was the crux of it, that it cost too much to support the smaller clients, since they don't have that many people.
The issue that I have with this is that if you have the staff to support XS, why would you need olivier to support it? Olivier's job would stop at XOA (unless it was an XOSAN) installation.
Which if the goal is to support XS and XOSAN than the pricing model still doesn't make sense as there are other products that do what XOSAN does and are further along in development.
Uh what other VSAs are there for XenServer?
DRBD and Starwind, for example. DRBD is not VSA, it's just RLS. You don't actually want VSA if you can help it. Starwind is VSA as a fallback. On Hyper-V, it's not a VSA, it's native.
That's kind of what I was getting at. There isn't a solution that's as easy to deploy as XO for this. Small shops most likely won't have the time spent to manage a DRBD setup, esp if something goes wrong.
Small shops are probably topping at two nodes and using StarWinds for free on Hyper-V.
Starwinds is always free, no node limit. Just in case anyone thought that that was implied.
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@stacksofplates said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@scottalanmiller said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@stacksofplates said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@DustinB3403 said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@BRRABill said in 5Nine Free Hyper-V Manager No Long Available:
@scottalanmiller said in 5Nine Free Hyper-V Manager No Long Available:
@DustinB3403 said in 5Nine Free Hyper-V Manager No Long Available:
Flat out saying it "cost to much to take your money" is literally turning customers away.
It is, but it is also turning away small customers that might not be profitable and what they have to consider is the risk that this poses to bigger customers. I don't agree with the approach, but they have sound logic for why they do what they do. All customers are not good customers.
If I remember the conversation correctly (we went through all of this with @olivier on a ML thread) that was the crux of it, that it cost too much to support the smaller clients, since they don't have that many people.
The issue that I have with this is that if you have the staff to support XS, why would you need olivier to support it? Olivier's job would stop at XOA (unless it was an XOSAN) installation.
Which if the goal is to support XS and XOSAN than the pricing model still doesn't make sense as there are other products that do what XOSAN does and are further along in development.
Uh what other VSAs are there for XenServer?
DRBD and Starwind, for example. DRBD is not VSA, it's just RLS. You don't actually want VSA if you can help it. Starwind is VSA as a fallback. On Hyper-V, it's not a VSA, it's native.
That's kind of what I was getting at. There isn't a solution that's as easy to deploy as XO for this. Small shops most likely won't have the time spent to manage a DRBD setup, esp if something goes wrong.
Although HA-Lizard automates and supports that. So it's really not much of a burden and there is always someone there to help out.
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So back to the OP what would work if XOA was a US based company with US backers?
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And the issue that I see with the last remark from the 5nine topic is that XOA is attempting to target only the big fish.
Which the SMB space is where I've seen a lot of conversation about XS
The big fish though likely don't have a need for XOA as is.
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@DustinB3403 said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
So back to the OP what would work if XOA was a US based company with US backers?
Different perspectives on how to make money. SMB market essentially does not exist in Europe, only SME, so financing in Europe is focused on "boxes" and big customers, rather than on support and services. Europe is primarily still a "sell us a box" 1990s business world whereas the US has for decades moved into the next tier of services. Sadly, this is one area that Europe is dramatically lagging the US and it is primarily that European financiers see the world this way. European entrepreneurs know that this is backwards and crazy, but there is nothing that they can do if they want financing.
This is why I think a venture fund focused on American financial know how and European entrepreneurs is a massive opportunity.
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@DustinB3403 said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
The big fish though likely don't have a need for XOA as is.
Correct, making a box that is only affordable by people who don't need it.
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@scottalanmiller said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
@DustinB3403 said in XOA Pricing Model - What might it look like from a US perspective:
The big fish though likely don't have a need for XOA as is.
Correct, making a box that is only affordable by people who don't need it.
Which is why the box pricing doesn't fit with much of the world. I'm sure some businesses have a need. But an appliance at this price point is just to much.
