Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?
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@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
So my challenge is, I'm walking down that sidewalk anyway, I don't feel particularly righteous by stepping over the money and walking on my way.
But, as we pointed out, this is a totally false analogy and never does this happen. You never step over money until after you have done something to make it appear. The sidewalk analogy simply isn't true, but makes it sound better than it is. This analogy approach makes me feel like you are trying to convince yourself, not us, that the money is just lying there. Using it makes us feel even moreso that it is not.
Lol, but your assumption is that the ONLY POSSIBLE REASON for taking that sidewalk is TO MAKE the money appear in the first place.
Your absolutism about the bias is what I reject. There are MANY reasons one might take an action that makes the money appear, the last or least of which is purely for the money itself. -
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
So my challenge is, I'm walking down that sidewalk anyway, I don't feel particularly righteous by stepping over the money and walking on my way.
But, as we pointed out, this is a totally false analogy and never does this happen. You never step over money until after you have done something to make it appear. The sidewalk analogy simply isn't true, but makes it sound better than it is. This analogy approach makes me feel like you are trying to convince yourself, not us, that the money is just lying there. Using it makes us feel even moreso that it is not.
Lol, but your assumption is that the ONLY POSSIBLE REASON for taking that sidewalk is TO MAKE the money appear in the first place.
Your absolutism about the bias is what I reject. There are MANY reasons one might take an action that makes the money appear, the last or least of which is purely for the money itself.Nope, didn't even remotely suggest that. Not sure why you feel that I even imagined that let alone said it.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
Your absolutism about the bias is what I reject. There are MANY reasons one might take an action that makes the money appear, the last or least of which is purely for the money itself.
That is because the bias is absolute. It really is. Unless you actively dislike money, which we logiced out for reasons before.
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@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
ver something stupid like some account credits or a 20 spot.
I don't think anyone is calling you specifically corrupt salesman, not a real IT guy, but we are saying you're not a consultant.
You are a VAR, and there is NOTHING wrong with being a VAR, as long as everyone is aware that you are a VAR, and you're not calling yourself a consultant.
If I were a VAR I would just be selling my one product. But instead I do the work of consultant, researching many possible solutions and presenting them as options.
Why do you think that? CDW is a VAR and they sell everything.
The assumption was that if I have 5 favorite products but an affiliate of one of them, this magically makes me a VAR instead of consultant.
Well fine, splitting hairs on definitions, it's what nerds do.My push back is that the one single affiliate product in my toolbox does little to influence me. If I accept that there is 100% bias toward that product now, ok, but it doesn't mean at ALL that simple work ethic and morals won't win out the day. At the end of the day, I still only want to do what's best for the client, not myself.
Scott's situation is naturally far different from my own. They are a provider, there are many layers, employees, contractors, whatever. affiliations are impossible to deal with. Who gets the money? The business owner, the CEO? If he gets it, will that influence how he trains his consultants and pushes them? Will he offer additional incentives to push those? If the consultants themselves get it, then the CEO has to worry about all that bias and whether his company is really neutral about things, maybe he won't want to allow it?
In my case, or the case of one person with a name in the phone book, it's not as complicated. I'm not talking about $30k commissions from VMAX. I'm talking about web hosting or some cloud service or a product purchase link. Very small amounts to be sure, but not as influential as $30k might be.
Or in the case where I sell an off the shelf solution or "package". Something like "hosting + install + this + that" is all wrapped up with the "service" options built-in, affiliates included. They aren't paying for consultant, they are paying for the end result, as long as it works!So many different angles to this discussion. Absolutes should not be the conclusion. I think ethics, morals, controls, policies, etc, can mitigate simple bias.
I'm heading out so no more responses from me till tomorrow, should anybody care to continue. I guess this conversation has happened before so. Kicking up old issues.
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http://dilbert.com/http://assets.amuniversal.com/93bb94703a3401349831005056a9545dThis is the thing we dread and don't want to happen. Hence the passionate replies.
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@guyinpv Are you planning on offering any pure consulting? If the client is paying for a recommendation, or as Scott said, several options - would you be OK with offering a solution where the client paid you for an opinion while also being paid by the vendor for a product that is in your recommendation?
Make the assumption that you will not be doing the install.If a customer found out after the fact that you could get paid by the vendor of one of your recommendations to them, do you think they would be OK with that?
Here's a situation - you hire me to design a server solution for you, I give you a recommendation to buy Dell. Then you find out down the road that Dell paid me because you ended up buying that Dell, would you be happy about that? Would you honestly think that the fact that there was a chance that Dell would pay me played no part in my recommending Dell to you?
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
Who gets the money?
The business of course.
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@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
Who gets the money?
The business of course
Seems odd that anyone else would even be in the running in a real business. Of course, Scott tells us that most small businesses aren't really real - I can't recall if he calls them more hobbies or not though
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Holy cow! Now THIS is what I was expecting!
Can someone please define a VAR for me?
I'll give an example. I do very few side jobs for people. Mainly friends. A friend with a small business comes to me and says, hey I need a new storage solution. From experience (and learning on places like here) I know that there really is no need to research a bunch of different products. the Synology will work great for them. I "sell" it to them (making a few bucks in the process), and then go over to their place and charge them a few hours labor to install it.
They don't want a whole report of recommendations. They trust me, and they just want it done. If I gave them a report and recommendation of 5 NASs (NASes?), they would say, just pick what you think is best. I don't want to deal with this crap, that's why I have you.
Am I a VAR?
Now, I am not saying this is the same for everyone. Obviously this isn't a model to make money. But to me it sounds like what @guyinpv is describing. That people trust him and just want his recommendation.
They want ME to pick something out and do the work. And trust me that I save them from getting screwed time and time again.
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@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
Am I a VAR?
Yep.
I mean, it's not my business. I'm just saying if that is the work I did, that would be a VAR.
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At the same time some would say that whom ever hired you didn't do their job, which should be either a) do research themselves for the best solution for their situation, or b) hire someone to find the best solution for their situation.
Granted, there are situations, just needing some simple storage, for example, that perhaps you really don't need to "find the best solution" for, but we time and time again with projects that don't have to be a lot larger than that have huge failures because they just get what the VAR/sales person 'sells' them. Now - the thing to remember is, there is no real blame on the VAR/salesperson in this situation. Remember, the VAR/salesperson's responsibility is to their company - not the customers. It's their job to get the most money from the customer. It's what the company pays them to do.
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@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
At the same time some would say that whom ever hired you didn't do their job, which should be either a) do research themselves for the best solution for their situation, or b) hire someone to find the best solution for their situation.
Granted, there are situations, just needing some simple storage, for example, that perhaps you really don't need to "find the best solution" for, but we time and time again with projects that don't have to be a lot larger than that have huge failures because they just get what the VAR/sales person 'sells' them. Now - the thing to remember is, there is no real blame on the VAR/salesperson in this situation. Remember, the VAR/salesperson's responsibility is to their company - not the customers. It's their job to get the most money from the customer. It's what the company pays them to do.
And really (and this is something ML has helped me come to grasps with) often the person is looking for the cheapest way out. They know that knowing me, they'll get the cheapest solution, and I won't screw them. Even if I do make a few bucks in the process.
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@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
And really (and this is something ML has helped me come to grasps with) often the person is looking for the cheapest way out. They know that knowing me, they'll get the cheapest solution, and I won't screw them. Even if I do make a few bucks in the process.
In that regard they are just lucky!
My friend - mentioned above.. had no idea what he really needed, other than he had an old server that they had $20K+ budget to replace with.
The VAR in this case, XXX, sold him a solution that worked, mostly, but was so not what he really needed and at 1/2 or less the cost.It definitely seems less likely to be taken to the cleaners by a small/one man shop versus large corporations.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
The assumption was that if I have 5 favorite products but an affiliate of one of them, this magically makes me a VAR instead of consultant.
Well fine, splitting hairs on definitions, it's what nerds do.It's what all people should do. Understanding what things "are" is our job in IT. Making things appear as things that they are not in the job of marketing and sales. There is no room for anyone who doesn't take semantics seriously in IT, IT (and most everything in life) depends on semantics. Splitting hairs is not what is going on, accuracy and clarity, is.
Yes, it makes you a VAR.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
My push back is that the one single affiliate product in my toolbox does little to influence me. If I accept that there is 100% bias toward that product now, ok, but it doesn't mean at ALL that simple work ethic and morals won't win out the day. At the end of the day, I still only want to do what's best for the client, not myself.
You have missed the point. No one is saying 100% bias... we are saying any bias. Unless you can 100% say that you don't care about the money and have zero reason to want to have the affiliate program and 100% don't care if you even get paid to consult, there is going to be bias from getting money for one product and not another. And everything in this thread is about how much you want that money... whether for doing a new job, being an affiliate, consulting, whatever. So that answers the bias question. Throwing out the need for bias to be 100% is total misdirection, even a Chevy salesman is not going to be 100% biased by getting paid 100% to sell Chevies, maybe 99%, but not 100%. If someone is looking for a boat, they will still almost always send them on to some other shop.
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@Breffni-Potter said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
http://dilbert.com/http://assets.amuniversal.com/93bb94703a3401349831005056a9545dThis is the thing we
dreadsee every day and don't want to happen. Hence the passionate replies.FTFY
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
My push back is that the one single affiliate product in my toolbox does little to influence me.
Of course, the question all comes down to .... how little, how much bias are you okay with, and how much bias is your customer okay with? It's double dipping... getting paid from one person to give an opinion in one way, paid by another to skew that opinion based on something other than the needs of the client. You've moved into a gray area of "biased, but when is it too much?"
And like I showed, it's easily 50 - 100% of the cost of the consulting for the items in question. That's a lot of money to not be biased by.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
Scott's situation is naturally far different from my own. They are a provider, there are many layers, employees, contractors, whatever. affiliations are impossible to deal with. Who gets the money? The business owner, the CEO? If he gets it, will that influence how he trains his consultants and pushes them? Will he offer additional incentives to push those? If the consultants themselves get it, then the CEO has to worry about all that bias and whether his company is really neutral about things, maybe he won't want to allow it?
That's why we don't get commissions individually OR at the corporate level. Because we are not a VAR and you are right, doing that creates bias indirectly instead of directly. So specifically avoided. You are right to worry about how that would work.
It can help and it means that a person that is not directly consulting can create air gaps and policies to make the system blind. We've considered that a lot and feel that it can be done, and maybe someday we will do it with proper disclosures. But currently we do not, specifically for the reason(s) you mention.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
In my case, or the case of one person with a name in the phone book, it's not as complicated. I'm not talking about $30k commissions from VMAX. I'm talking about web hosting or some cloud service or a product purchase link. Very small amounts to be sure, but not as influential as $30k might be.
Of course, but we aren't talking about $30K of consulting either. If you are hired to do 15 minutes of deciding on which cloud host to use and one pays you $10 and one does not, and the 15 minutes of consulting is $20... that's 50%. 50% is influential, switching to just telling people to use your chosen affiliate could easily pad your bottom line over the course of a year to the tune of $30K, right?
You are looking at this as if it's $10... it's not. It's $10, for ten minutes of work, over and over again. It might be nothing, but it might be enough to pay the bills alone. It's not a one time thing and it isn't based on a large amount of consulting hours. It's minutes.
