Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?
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@Breffni-Potter said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said
In the real world, I would disclose that I have a recommended baker that I work with and here are the benefits X, Y, Z.
I don't care about the one person who happens to be your buddy or your mate or the only person you've ever used in the past though.
I'm paying you to go out and research all of them
I want you to do detailed work. Then hand me the data.I get you, but you're hiring a bakery consult. You assume I've never researched them before? That I've never recommended one and know what happened in the aftermath? That I've never seen a similar list of requirements and had similar research done? That I've never talked with peers about their own research and discoveries?
Let's not pretend that consulting is like starting from scratch on day one and you know nothing about the subject matter.
When Sally wants web hosting for less than $8 a month on Wordpress for her change-the-world social commentary blog, she couldn't give two rips about my ethics and morals. Grab a cheap host with cPanel, there are many, they'll do the job.If Bob wants 12 chocolate muffins for his daughter's sleepover, I'm sure one baker or another isn't going to destroy the night either way.
All I'm saying is if someone wants a backup strategy, they will hire a consult who specializes to some degree, in just that. Surely they will have some favorites. They won't be online finding "Bob's Super Backup 5000!" that was just released a week ago. They won't be recommending such a new product anyway. Tried and true is good too.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Breffni-Potter said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I'm going to use a childish example.
I hire you, to go into bakeries and pick the best baker for me.
Now, you are down to 2 bakeries.
One of them, says they will give you some money if your client buys from them. The other does not.
Which bakery will you most likely recommend?
Now, your client finds out about this, how does that affect your relationship and the work you delivered for them?
Ok, if I may.
If a person wants a bakery, one of the first things out of my mouth is who I consider top bakeries already. I'm not going to somehow "pretend" like I never heard of bakery A and then kind of "pretend" that they come out on top while secretly knowing all along I have a commission with them.
In the real world, I would disclose that I have a recommended baker that I work with and here are the benefits X, Y, Z.
Nobody is suggesting to be sleazy or secretive about affiliations or partner vendors or solutions or that a particular link is an affiliate.
Completely hiding the affiliation or pretending like your top baker was totally by accident is what I think we're talking about, is "corrupt".
If you are disclosing everything, then there is no issue. You can get any commission you want, conscious free, as long as it is disclosed. No problem at all there.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
Let's not pretend that consulting is like starting from scratch on day one and you know nothing about the subject matter.
When Sally wants web hosting for less than $8 a month on Wordpress for her change-the-world social commentary blog, she couldn't give two rips about my ethics and morals. Grab a cheap host with cPanel, there are many, they'll do the job.If Bob wants 12 chocolate muffins for his daughter's sleepover, I'm sure one baker or another isn't going to destroy the night either way.
Except they are paying you to care. They are paying you to not treat it this way. They could have done that on their own without you. They are paying you to know certain things, know how to determine other things, do the work to fill in the gaps and provide recommendations. Sure, getting it wrong might not be a disaster, but you should be trying to do a good job as the quality of your recommendation is the sole thing that they are giving you money for.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
All I'm saying is if someone wants a backup strategy, they will hire a consult who specializes to some degree, in just that. Surely they will have some favorites. They won't be online finding "Bob's Super Backup 5000!" that was just released a week ago. They won't be recommending such a new product anyway. Tried and true is good too.
Sure, but hopefully favourites are based on experience or some factor that is valuable to the customer. Of course they are paying for your experience and opinion, but only if that opinion is based on value to them. I like Veeam for backups, as an example, but if a customer hires me to look at backups, that's a minor factor compared to looking into what the customer's needs are and finding what option is specifically useful for them.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv you keep saying sell. That should be the entire discussion. Period. End of Story.
A consultant consults. A salesperson sells. Period.
What if solution A requires 10 more man hours on the contract? That's monetary gain too. If the mortgage is due and the wife bought too many wingdings at the home store, solution A because bit more appealing.
Of course but those are consultant man hours and have nothing to do with getting paid by a third party.
I don't think he meant 10 more consulting hours.. he meant 10 more implementation hours. - unless you did mean consulting hours @guyinpv ?
I wasn't thinking in terms of consult versus implement. That's an interesting angle.
Typically I do both for people.
In that case, you've already been hired for the whole job, you're not really a consultant then either.
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@guyinpv said
If Bob wants 12 chocolate muffins for his daughter's sleepover, I'm sure one baker or another isn't going to destroy the night either way.
Bob is a millionaire whose daughter is getting married...They better be DAMM good muffins
Obviously you don't hire a consultant for a $10 item (Maybe some do)
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@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv you keep saying sell. That should be the entire discussion. Period. End of Story.
A consultant consults. A salesperson sells. Period.
What if solution A requires 10 more man hours on the contract? That's monetary gain too. If the mortgage is due and the wife bought too many wingdings at the home store, solution A because bit more appealing.
Of course but those are consultant man hours and have nothing to do with getting paid by a third party.
I don't think he meant 10 more consulting hours.. he meant 10 more implementation hours. - unless you did mean consulting hours @guyinpv ?
I wasn't thinking in terms of consult versus implement. That's an interesting angle.
Typically I do both for people.
I do both almost every time.
But they are still separate projects.
Yep, all about being paid for two separate projects. one project of consulting and a different one of implementation.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Breffni-Potter said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said
In the real world, I would disclose that I have a recommended baker that I work with and here are the benefits X, Y, Z.
I don't care about the one person who happens to be your buddy or your mate or the only person you've ever used in the past though.
I'm paying you to go out and research all of them
I want you to do detailed work. Then hand me the data.I get you, but you're hiring a bakery consult. You assume I've never researched them before? That I've never recommended one and know what happened in the aftermath? That I've never seen a similar list of requirements and had similar research done? That I've never talked with peers about their own research and discoveries?
Let's not pretend that consulting is like starting from scratch on day one and you know nothing about the subject matter.
When Sally wants web hosting for less than $8 a month on Wordpress for her change-the-world social commentary blog, she couldn't give two rips about my ethics and morals. Grab a cheap host with cPanel, there are many, they'll do the job.If Bob wants 12 chocolate muffins for his daughter's sleepover, I'm sure one baker or another isn't going to destroy the night either way.
All I'm saying is if someone wants a backup strategy, they will hire a consult who specializes to some degree, in just that. Surely they will have some favorites. They won't be online finding "Bob's Super Backup 5000!" that was just released a week ago. They won't be recommending such a new product anyway. Tried and true is good too.
these projects are probably to small to make consulting worth while. If we're talking about a single NAS device for some simple project that's one thing. But how often is that not the case?
All you have to do is look at SW and you'll see the tons of projects that if they would have hired a consultant they could have saved $1000's.
A friend of mine worked for a school district - Instead of hiring a consultant, he contacted CDW - CDW sold him a Dual processor, fully loaded server with a SAN and ESXi essentials and no backup solution to run ONE, yes ONE Windows VM. That SAN was $20K. No clue on the server.
If he would have hired a real consultant, he would have spent maybe $1000 on consulting (probably a LOT less) and ended up with a single server with internal disk and a backup solution for probably less than $15K and had a solution that would have been many orders of magnitude more reliable. -
@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
these projects are probably to small to make consulting worth while. If we're talking about a single NAS device for some simple project that's one thing. But how often is that not the case?
That's a common problem with a lot of these things. In the case where you are recommending something like a Synology, you are likely only doing one to two hours of consulting. Let's say that that is $200/hr. Maybe you get paid $400 total for the consulting. How much do you make selling a Synology? Easily $40. Maybe another $400. Products of this nature of often priced into a range that is comparable to the consulting on them.
Same thing with a bigger engagement. If you are dealing with someone specing out a giant VMAX, sure, you might get $10K of consulting time, but you'll easily get $30K on commission!
If you are looking at Digital Ocean vs. Vultr, you might get 15 minutes of consulting time on that, max. That means that you get a max of about $50 for that consulting and likely a bit less, maybe as low as $10. The commission on selling a single DO instance is $5 or so. A pretty significant portion of that $10 consulting fee. Significant even on $50.
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@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Breffni-Potter said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I'm going to use a childish example.
I hire you, to go into bakeries and pick the best baker for me.
Now, you are down to 2 bakeries.
One of them, says they will give you some money if your client buys from them. The other does not.
Which bakery will you most likely recommend?
Now, your client finds out about this, how does that affect your relationship and the work you delivered for them?
Ok, if I may.
If a person wants a bakery, one of the first things out of my mouth is who I consider top bakeries already. I'm not going to somehow "pretend" like I never heard of bakery A and then kind of "pretend" that they come out on top while secretly knowing all along I have a commission with them.
In the real world, I would disclose that I have a recommended baker that I work with and here are the benefits X, Y, Z.
Nobody is suggesting to be sleazy or secretive about affiliations or partner vendors or solutions or that a particular link is an affiliate.
Completely hiding the affiliation or pretending like your top baker was totally by accident is what I think we're talking about, is "corrupt".
If you are disclosing everything, then there is no issue. You can get any commission you want, conscious free, as long as it is disclosed. No problem at all there.
To be clear, the only reason this topic is getting a reactionary response is due to the inherent offense at basically being told "you are corrupt!" and thus no good as a consultant due to a possible affiliation.
This just makes people defensive to try and prove how they are NOT corrupt because nobody wants to be told they are over something stupid like some account credits or a 20 spot.
This makes me, perhaps others at other times, reactionary to defend the idea of affiliations and bias, even though I totally agree money can bias people. That's not even under question. I just argue it isn't the case in many circumstances. When the affiliate fee is paltry compared to the job for example, or paltry in general. Or when the product is exceptional and often recommended by default.
"Hey, can you recommend a program that takes files and folders and choose and backs them up to a USB drive?"
"Why yes sir I can, ALL of them."
"But which do you recommend?"
"How about THIS one, wink wink, nudge nudge."
"Thanks! Here is all my money!"My view is that some affiliate programs are like picking up money on the sidewalk, it's just there, take it. Then you say, no, because you must take action before the money appears. Yes of course, I have to be walking down that particular sidewalk!
So my challenge is, I'm walking down that sidewalk anyway, I don't feel particularly righteous by stepping over the money and walking on my way.
If I find myself walking down that same sidewalk 80% of the time, some extra cash is a nice bonus.Hey it's fine to disagree. The only affiliates I actually have in real life is InMotion for basic cPanel hosting, Amazon of course, and I think VULTR, but that only gives me credits, not cash. These are just banner ads on my business site. I only signed up for the program because I'd been using them quite successfully for about 6 years.
You can call me a corrupt salesman and not a real IT guy or consultant if you want. I just don't think it's that extreme. Heck, I just passed up a $300+ bonus for ecommerce solution because going with it would have lost us some enterprise benefits. Essentially we could get three free months going with a certain package, or start at a lower package and I get the $300. Well turns out it was better to start with the higher package and I get nothing, so that's what we did.
I can't say $300+ wasn't enticing, but ultimately I do right by the client. It's just work ethic. Work ethic CAN and WILL trump monetary gain in a moral person. -
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
To be clear, the only reason this topic is getting a reactionary response is due to the inherent offense at basically being told "you are corrupt!" and thus no good as a consultant due to a possible affiliation.
Well, and on the other side, we are being told that we are leaving money on the table... but it's money that we don't feel that we could accept. From our side, you are suggesting that we are a bit foolish for not taking some money for what we do, but we don't feel that we would feel good about that if we did.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
ver something stupid like some account credits or a 20 spot.
I don't think anyone is calling you specifically corrupt salesman, not a real IT guy, but we are saying you're not a consultant.
You are a VAR, and there is NOTHING wrong with being a VAR, as long as everyone is aware that you are a VAR, and you're not calling yourself a consultant.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
This just makes people defensive to try and prove how they are NOT corrupt because nobody wants to be told they are over something stupid like some account credits or a 20 spot.
Sure, but all they have to do is not accept that money. Why accept a $20 commission if it makes you feel corrupt? If you don't feel corrupt and are comfortable that your clients would be okay with that, that's fine, that's up to you. I can tell you for a fact, I'd not be okay accepting that commission under those pretenses. Sorry, I can't sugar coat that, as a consultant, I don't feel that I'd be behaving ethically.
I understand why you feel defensive. But I'm confused because you aren't doing this yet, so we didn't call you corrupt. We said it would be, you aren't arguing that you aren't corrupt, you are arguing that you want to do this anyway, even though we feel it would be corrupt, right?
So bottom line, would you want your clients to know? Would you brag to them about your financial acumen?
This is an ethics question that we face daily. Any day we could accept commissions and make a lot more money that we do. This is very real for us, too.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
My view is that some affiliate programs are like picking up money on the sidewalk, it's just there, take it. Then you say, no, because you must take action before the money appears. Yes of course, I have to be walking down that particular sidewalk!
So my challenge is, I'm walking down that sidewalk anyway, I don't feel particularly righteous by stepping over the money and walking on my way.
If I find myself walking down that same sidewalk 80% of the time, some extra cash is a nice bonus.But the other 20% of the time.... what? You truly believe there is zero influence? You think that the vendors are fools in this case and you are getting their money and not doing what they hope that you will do? Maybe, but that seems a stretch.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
You can call me a corrupt salesman and not a real IT guy or consultant if you want. I just don't think it's that extreme.
No one said that in the least. No one thought that you were doing this, nor did we call sales people corrupt. If you are getting that impression, I would suggest some reflection as to why you are having an emotional reaction to something that isn't about you and why you feel that this is so bad when none of us suggested that it was.
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@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
This just makes people defensive to try and prove how they are NOT corrupt because nobody wants to be told they are over something stupid like some account credits or a 20 spot.
Sure, but all they have to do is not accept that money. Why accept a $20 commission if it makes you feel corrupt? If you don't feel corrupt and are comfortable that your clients would be okay with that, that's fine, that's up to you. I can tell you for a fact, I'd not be okay accepting that commission under those pretenses. Sorry, I can't sugar coat that, as a consultant, I don't feel that I'd be behaving ethically.
Again I feel the need to point out that Scott means that you are being PAID to consult. Not some free advice you give someone.
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@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
ver something stupid like some account credits or a 20 spot.
I don't think anyone is calling you specifically corrupt salesman, not a real IT guy, but we are saying you're not a consultant.
You are a VAR, and there is NOTHING wrong with being a VAR, as long as everyone is aware that you are a VAR, and you're not calling yourself a consultant.
If I were a VAR I would just be selling my one product. But instead I do the work of consultant, researching many possible solutions and presenting them as options.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
So my challenge is, I'm walking down that sidewalk anyway, I don't feel particularly righteous by stepping over the money and walking on my way.
But, as we pointed out, this is a totally false analogy and never does this happen. You never step over money until after you have done something to make it appear. The sidewalk analogy simply isn't true, but makes it sound better than it is. This analogy approach makes me feel like you are trying to convince yourself, not us, that the money is just lying there. Using it makes us feel even moreso that it is not.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
ver something stupid like some account credits or a 20 spot.
I don't think anyone is calling you specifically corrupt salesman, not a real IT guy, but we are saying you're not a consultant.
You are a VAR, and there is NOTHING wrong with being a VAR, as long as everyone is aware that you are a VAR, and you're not calling yourself a consultant.
If I were a VAR I would just be selling my one product. But instead I do the work of consultant, researching many possible solutions and presenting them as options.
Nope, nearly all VARs sell many. I know of essentially none, but there are a few, that only sell one or two.
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@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
You can call me a corrupt salesman and not a real IT guy or consultant if you want. I just don't think it's that extreme.
No one said that in the least. No one thought that you were doing this, nor did we call sales people corrupt. If you are getting that impression, I would suggest some reflection as to why you are having an emotional reaction to something that isn't about you and why you feel that this is so bad when none of us suggested that it was.
LOL I'll respond to this - It's really hard for the emotional creatures that we are to not become upset in general when the side of an issue we are on is being what we consider, attacked.
I've definitely been on @guyinpv side of this conversation against the powers of ML.
