Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?
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@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
My view is that some affiliate programs are like picking up money on the sidewalk, it's just there, take it. Then you say, no, because you must take action before the money appears. Yes of course, I have to be walking down that particular sidewalk!
So my challenge is, I'm walking down that sidewalk anyway, I don't feel particularly righteous by stepping over the money and walking on my way.
If I find myself walking down that same sidewalk 80% of the time, some extra cash is a nice bonus.But the other 20% of the time.... what? You truly believe there is zero influence?
No, what I believe is that I can STILL come up with the best solution. Just because bias might exist, it doesn't mean it actually WILL change the outcome.
The 20% of the time the other sidewalk is a better fit, so be it.Now THAT might be true. There IS bias, but is it enough to influence the final decision? Only you can determine that. Only you know how much you will charge, how much you will get a commission and how much it will affect you. You can't argue that there isn't bias, you can only argue how much it biases you. Only you know that amount.
$30k from VMAX sounds pretty tasty!
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I guess we can't help how the client perceives the consultant if they know he may receive commissions. Our overwhelming lack of faith in human ethics wins over our assumption that the consultant will still make objective choices.
Well, and given that nearly all people branding themselves as consultants actually resell and actually make reckless "recommendations" that support those sales. This isn't an overwhelming lack of faith, it's an observable fact that this is how the majority work. It's not just a lack of ethics in having a conflict of interest, but a larger problem of selling a service that they don't even attempt to provide.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
At the end of the day, as others have said, the consultant typically leaves 2 or 3 possible options on the table, with pros and cons of each. If one of the choices happens to earn commission, it shouldn't be a problem if this is disclosed. I don't see why we have to keep calling the consultant a corrupt person working for two masters. This language is a bit over the top, but that's just me.
Are you saying that you feel that they are serving two masters, but that that isn't corruption? Or that they really aren't serving both?
We call it because most of us see a conflict of interest (serving two masters) and that that is an ethics breach. You can make it a bit one or a small one. But one party pays you to be as neutral as possible, while money is also excepted from another party for not being neutral. It's hard to see it from the outside as anything but questionable - unless this is disclosed.
Again.. disclosure changes everything. If it is disclosed, then there is no problem. If it is not disclosed... why not?
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
The availability of a bonus/affiliate/commission/finders fee/whatever does not mean one "works for" the vendor, the vendor is not their second "master". However, the potential of the bonus may indeed cloud judgement and create bias.
But it's payment for services rendered. Same as the money from the customer. In both cases the money is option, in both cases you are serving the "master" based on the same conditions.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
If a customer found out after the fact that you could get paid by the vendor of one of your recommendations to them, do you think they would be OK with that?
Probably not. It assumes no mention of favorites, partnerships or affiliates was ever discussed. It also assumes that businesses, like other in this thread, simply assume if money is involved, there can be ONLY corruption at the highest level and it would be impossible for the consultant to make wise choices, being utterly controlled and clouded by greed.
You keep using terms like utterly or 100%. That's wrong. The concern is that someone be influenced by greed at all. The more you use absolute terms, that the second master is the only master, the more it feels like you are grasping. We are talking about any, not all. Very, very different things.
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Let me give an example....
Customer pays you $20 to determine what cloud provider is best for them, or if they need one at all. This is a fifteen minute engagement.
Vendor offers you $10 to choose the, an additional $10 if you oversell the customer.
You took the just for the customer in the first place based on the desire for money. Greed (not a bad thing here) drove you to engage as a consultant because you seek money. A vendor will easily offer you the same amount of money that the customer does to push in a certain direction.
So whatever drove you to accept the money from the customer, a desire to get paid, exists easily in equal quantities from the vendor.
What if the customer probably would do better with less or no cloud, but it's a grey area? The customer will never know, the solution will be overbuilt and work even better for them except it will cost more, but if they agree... it's impossible to know why you chose the bigger solution. If you did this every time, it would double your salary... put your kids through college, buy that bigger house, move you from the Chevy to the BMW....
The desire for money is the bases on which all this starts. That greed is guaranteed to exist, you don't consult for free. So the desire for the money from the vendor is there. That it would have an influential effect is hard to ignore.
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@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
Who gets the money?
The business of course
Seems odd that anyone else would even be in the running in a real business. Of course, Scott tells us that most small businesses aren't really real - I can't recall if he calls them more hobbies or not though
I generally use the term hobby. I've had people call their own businesses hobbies, actually. When @Minion-Queen and I used to do door to door sales, we actually found tons and tons of true hobby businesses (not just me calling them that.) An extremely common business that you don't think about, but that makes up one of the larger percentage groups of American businesses, is a bored housewife running a "business" that her husband pays for and is never intended to make money but is used as a tax shelter and hobby. So, example, a knick knack store in an old house by the side of the highway. They buy the house or rent it for next to nothing, do the work themselves to decorate it and fill it with, um.. junk, and she sells that all day. Almost no one comes in to buy anything, it's all her friends coming in to drink coffee and hang out. Once in a while someone actually buys something, but never enough to cover 10% of the rent and she makes zero salary as there is no money for that. It's just something to keep her busy or to make it sound good when she says that she runs a business.
That's an extreme, but super common, example. But lots and lots of SMBs are shades of gray with this. Maybe it is a full time business with an employee or two, but it is still just a joke business "for fun" and no one is intentionally running it to make money and very often, they don't. When the owner gets bored, they can't sell it as it is worth literally nothing. So these pop up and down all the time and they truly are hobbies.
THen there are people who "think" that they are running a business but do it at a hobby level and never take it seriously at all. I call these hobbies too, because it is important to make their owners understand that that's how they are treating it, even if they don't admit it.
So a "real" business has to be in it for the money? But making more money with commissions and affiliates is "unethical". Therefore, to be a "real" business, you must become unethical!
LOL sorry I had to go there!
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
So a "real" business has to be in it for the money?
That is both the linguistic and the legal definition of a business, yes.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
But making more money with commissions and affiliates is "unethical".
Not at all. Accepting payment under false pretenses is unethical. I've been absolutely, extremely, unquestionably clear that reselling is totally ethical. I've never hinted even slightly that it was unethical. It's accepting money from the customer to not be biased in this way, hiding it from them and then accepting the money from the vendor that is unethical.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
Therefore, to be a "real" business, you must become unethical!
Not in the least. A consulting business is not unethical. A sales business is not unethical. A sales business that also sells consulting and informs the customer is not unethical.
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Well, I rejected the "two masters" idea based on obligations. A person is my "master" when they have the power to tell me what to do or I somehow give myself to serving them.
One of the other people in here (don't want to scroll back up) had said that a VAR has a "responsibility" to the vendor to push their stuff for those commissions.
I say, simply being an affiliate does not create responsibility at all. I'm not obliged, obligated, required, responsible; there are no quotas, requirements, contracts to stay in the program. Therefore I actually have ZERO responsibility to the vendor whatsoever. Heck I don't even have to sell/recommend their product even once, ever. Therefore I have a hard time describing them as a "master" when they have zero control over me and how I run my business.
Once again, the only thing on the table is a potential for a bonus should I happen to choose them in a scenario. This then begs the question, how much does the bonus have to be to create a real dilemma of bias?
I reject some of the "absolute" terms and definitions used. I reject the idea that having just one affiliate in my entire toolbox makes me some kind of complete sellout, serving a new master, corrupt and biased, unable to be objective, unwilling to ever research alternative solutions, and thrown out entirely from the consulting space.
Yes, words have meaning, definitions are important, but only a Sith deals in absolutes.
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It does not matter that you reject it. It is still a fact. Facts are absolute. That is why they are facts.
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@guyinpv do you have some reason why you want to call yourself a consultant instead of a VAR? If not, just call yourself a VAR, and collect those affiliate fees all day long. Also realize that some person like Scott will never ask you to design something for him, because he knows it's your job to sell XYZ widget, not make a plan for him with zero biases.
The sad reality is that most people - most IT people, SMB business owners, etc either don't realize this, or don't want to realize this. They think they can call the likes of CDW and get a completely fair and unbiased opinion on the best possible solution for their problem. But they can't. They can't because CDWs goal is to sell whatever hot new toy they have for sale, wither you need it or not. Like my friend getting sold a SAN when he only needed local internal storage for is one host, one virtual machine VM host.
I said it earlier, smaller VARs can possibly find themselves less likely to do this, more intune with the customer, but they do so solely at their own determinate (i.e. less profits).
Got a question for you - you go to a car dealership looking for a mode of transportation to get you from your home to work and back daily. Assuming the normal city life a smallish sized sedan should probably suit you just fine. Do you think the sales person wants to sell you the lowest profit vehicle on the lot? Of course not. They will steer you towards the most expensive (think of all of those little ol' ladies in Cadillacs). As a VAR you should be doing the same thing. If you aren't then you aren't doing the best thing for your company. This is not considered unethical - why not you ask, because you as a customer are not doing your part to make sure you only get the car you need, while the sales person is doing his job, making the most amount of money from a sale as possible (that's his contract spoken or not with his company).
So are you mad at the sales person for trying to sell you an expensive car?
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@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv do you have some reason why you want to call yourself a consultant instead of a VAR? If not, just call yourself a VAR, and collect those affiliate fees all day long.
If a landscapper creates wonderful landscapes all day every day but deep down in their list of services they also replace clothes dryer vent caps, should people on the Internet tell him he should just call himself a plumber and be done with it? Install dryer caps all day? Just don't call yourself a landscaper because you do that one dryer vent thing, you're actually a plumber.
Got a question for you - you go to a car dealership looking for a mode of transportation to get you from your home to work and back daily. Assuming the normal city life a smallish sized sedan should probably suit you just fine. Do you think the sales person wants to sell you the lowest profit vehicle on the lot? Of course not. They will steer you towards the most expensive (think of all of those little ol' ladies in Cadillacs). As a VAR you should be doing the same thing. If you aren't then you aren't doing the best thing for your company. This is not considered unethical - why not you ask, because you as a customer are not doing your part to make sure you only get the car you need, while the sales person is doing his job, making the most amount of money from a sale as possible (that's his contract spoken or not with his company).
So are you mad at the sales person for trying to sell you an expensive car?
Because it's NOT "my job" to sell the item I have an affiliate with. I DON'T "work for" that company. I have ZERO responsibility to push their product whatsoever. And my primary business income is NOT commission sales and so I don't have to exert any effort at all to get those sales.
It's a car salesmen JOB to earn commission, it's their bread and butter, it's what they DO. If I get an Amazon affiliate, it does not magically become my "job" to work for Amazon, upsell people, and do everything for the commission. This is not just an argument of semantics, it's changing the ENTIRE business plan and reason for existing.
An affiliate link doesn't change my entire reason to exist. -
Please define your job and your responsibilities for us. With this new company of course.
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@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
Please define your job and your responsibilities for us. With this new company of course.
I work full time for a retail/manufacturing/ecommerce business.
My side business is general IT. However I do list "consulting" as a line item. For example:
- Installation
- Upgrades
- Consulting
- Web services
- SEO services
etc
I see consulting as something a business "can do" as a service. Not as something the business "is" in its entirety. Hense, general IT services.
You kind of have to be a generalist if you want to find any work in a small town. I can't be that one specialist guy who only does consulting and only consulting about edge routing. I'd never get a job.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv do you have some reason why you want to call yourself a consultant instead of a VAR? If not, just call yourself a VAR, and collect those affiliate fees all day long.
If a landscapper creates wonderful landscapes all day every day but deep down in their list of services they also replace clothes dryer vent caps, should people on the Internet tell him he should just call himself a plumber and be done with it? Install dryer caps all day? Just don't call yourself a landscaper because you do that one dryer vent thing, you're actually a plumber.
I don't follow - installing dryer caps doesn't conflict with you being a landscapper, so this analogy doesn't track.
Being a PAID consultant directly conflicts with being a VAR. You can't just switch hats and decide for the next hour I'm going to be one, then the next hour be the other.
If your real goal is to be a solution provider, you're not really a consultant at all - you're a solution provider. Because from the sound of this thread, you're desire isn't to just consult and make recommendations, instead it's to make recommendations then implement them - that is what sounds like your non stated goal is.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I say, simply being an affiliate does not create responsibility at all. I'm not obliged, obligated, required, responsible; there are no quotas, requirements, contracts to stay in the program. Therefore I actually have ZERO responsibility to the vendor whatsoever. Heck I don't even have to sell/recommend their product even once, ever. Therefore I have a hard time describing them as a "master" when they have zero control over me and how I run my business.
Sure, but as I said before, that's no different than the client who pays for consulting. You are also under no obligation, so they are not your master by that definition. We're going around in circles. I pointed out earlier that if you accept this definition, you have no masters. If accepting money drives you, you have two.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
Once again, the only thing on the table is a potential for a bonus should I happen to choose them in a scenario. This then begs the question, how much does the bonus have to be to create a real dilemma of bias?
That's essentially correct. Compare it to the money from the customer, how much does their money influence you?
