Simplivity - anyone use them?
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Well, this thread blew up with activity pretty quickly.
@virtualrick - Firstly thanks for listening, then responding and not running away. When dealing with @scottalanmiller remember on his own profile his motto is: ""If it can be said in 100 words, I can say it in 1,000."" So it's a bit bombastic at times when you are not used to his pace. (how does he write so much, so quickly...)
So thank you for sticking around and listening, I doubt you guys have a presence in the UK so I don't think we'll cross over but I wish the best of luck with getting into the SMB space in the US.
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@cakeis_not_alie said
...but the stuff in this thread just isn't what SimpliVity should be yelled at for. Some times I'm on the side of the mob, raising a pitchfork and demanding vendors stop being dumbasses. This time, I find myself having to side with a vendor and saying "guys...you're off the mark".
I'm not convinced personally.
Any business wanting to enter the SMB space, who wants to generate profit and take it seriously, needs to research their market and the concept of hidden pricing/deal negotiations does not exist in the SMB world so it is a justifiable flaw they were called out on.
I'm of the opinion that if a vendor wants me to take their product into my inner sanctum of clients, Yes I'm going to challenge and question what you do and how you do it, if the fit is not good then we move onto somebody else but there are quite a few vendors who I am happy with.
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@Breffni-Potter Who says SimpliVity wants to enter the SMB space? Anyone telling you that is nuts.
SimpliVity are a midmarket and enterprise supplier. They don't have an SMB play worth mentioning. They aren't here to cater to the nickle-and-dime customers who cost more in support than the margins you'll make off them. They are making more than enough money playing the midmarket and higher spaces that they can - and from a purely business standpoint should - stay there for quite some time.
SimpliVity doesn't need to pander to the SMB market until the midmarket is so saturated that they need to go make a volume play. When they're ready to do that in earnest a lot of things will change in SimpliVity's approach.
Right now, SimpliVity makes their wins off of companies that have muchos big time branch offices and need a solution that lowers costs when compared to having to run basically a rack's worth of stuff at each branch location in order to squeeze the data through the tubes every night. They make money here and they're very, very good at squaring this circle.
For the poverty-tier folks - myself included - there are lots of other vendors. The really ghetto types can choose Starwind and <censored for legal reasons>. Or they can go use Nodeweaver from Cloudweavers if they want proper HCI that actually works, for as low as humanly possible.
A step up from that into a more expensive world is Scale Computing, and they're excellent, VMware's VSAN comes in around the same price for a different, but equal featureset.
You could go Nutanix, but their performance is made out of buttinase unless you devote WAY too much RAM to their VSA, and then you don't have room for workloads. Their SMB play is mostly brochureware.
Stepping up from the barest of bare bones and into the realm of the midmarket you start to see actual competition. Scale plays here. SimpliVity, Nutanix, Pivot3, many, many others...and they all have deltas between list and street that are significant.
Here, picking the right HCI vendor is about needs and featureset. And the purchasing cycle is usually months long and involves a POC. (Or ten.)
But if you are poverty tier like me, let me be perfectly, 100%, crystal clear: SimpliVity, and 99.999999999999999975% of vendors simply don't want to deal with you, because you cost more to acquire and support than you are worth.
In the realm of "caters to poverty tier clients" basically the only solution that anyone should trust is Nodeweaver, and I still don't understand why they're so damned cheap. Their stuff works, and they should be charging 2x-3x what they do for it. Eventually, I'm sure they will.
Everyone else who plays down at our level...well...Groucho Marx said it best:
I wouldn't want to be part of any club that would have me as a member.
If your whole beef with SimpliVity is that they aren't going to suck you a rapture for a bent copper, I'm sorry to say, but they - rightly - don't, won't and shouldn't care. Not for another 10 years or so, anyways.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a datacenter full of cobbled together whitebox servers and sadness that needs my tender care and attention...
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@Breffni-Potter Actually we have a large presence in UK, in fact we have our HQ for Support for the EMEA region in Cork, Ireland. We do around 47% of our rev outside the us. I'm sure there is local staff for you.
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@cakeis_not_alie said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
@Breffni-Potter Who says SimpliVity wants to enter the SMB space? Anyone telling you that is nuts.
Simplivity said it.
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@virtualrick said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
@Breffni-Potter Actually we have a large presence in UK, in fact we have our HQ for Support for the EMEA region in Cork, Ireland. We do around 47% of our rev outside the us. I'm sure there is local staff for you.
How is the EU presence? I realize Cork is in the EU.
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@cakeis_not_alie said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
@Breffni-Potter Who says SimpliVity wants to enter the SMB space? Anyone telling you that is nuts.
Notice that last line. This was Simplivity's first post here. So we were basing the SMB focus on that statement.
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@scottalanmiller In our patch in IL/WI we will be happy to work with anyone. We have enterprise customers as well as smaller 2 node only shops and I feel they are both worthwhile. If my leadership says someone isn't big enough to deal with, I would listen, but I ran these in production for 2+ years as an end user (yes enterprise) and had them in branch offices (similar to a SMB IMHO) and they performed very well. Cost less than traditional for me.
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@cakeis_not_alie said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
In the realm of "caters to poverty tier clients" basically the only solution that anyone should trust is Nodeweaver, and I still don't understand why they're so damned cheap.
@stefuk had me look at them and the price wasn't that cheap. It was cheap, yeah, but like 90% of bigger players. Not like 30-50%.
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@virtualrick said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
@scottalanmiller In our patch in IL/WI we will be happy to work with anyone. We have enterprise customers as well as smaller 2 node only shops and I feel they are both worthwhile. If my leadership says someone isn't big enough to deal with, I would listen, but I ran these in production for 2+ years as an end user (yes enterprise) and had them in branch offices (similar to a SMB IMHO) and they performed very well. Cost less than traditional for me.
I've done enterprise branch office, it's very different than an SMB, in most cases. ROBO and SMB have a lot of overlap, but a lot of differences, too.
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For example, and this is probably the most extreme that I can think of, a top ROBO solution is the Dell VRTX. But the VRTX is considered totally worthless in the SMB market. Totally different needs.
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@scottalanmiller Then SimpliVity needs to be kicked for it. Twenty lashes with a wet noodle and no internet for a week!
SME? Yes. SMB? No. SimpliVity doesn't play down at my level, except for my very largest clients.
Let me be perfectly clear: SimpliVity started with a MIDMARKET focus and moved up channel.
Now, we could have debates about what is SMB, what is Midmarket and what is Enterprise, but I have actual definitions to use for this: https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/061.nsf/eng/02804.html
The midmarket is defined by the Canadian government as 100+ employees. And that's about right for where SimpliVity starts to be a real consideration. I'm going to say whomever believes that is "SMB" is out of touch with the real mass market and what SMB means, especially outside the USA.
And maybe that's the kicker. US definitions and "pretty much the rest of the world" differ a lot here. Important to consider.
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@scottalanmiller I respect that, I did state the street prices and the basic specs, you guys can decide where the line is drawn. I would bet that some SMB are a fit and others are not. Our tech is what's different, so when shopping, just know that we are more than servers and storage in a box.
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@virtualrick said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
@scottalanmiller I respect that, I did state the street prices and the basic specs, you guys can decide where the line is drawn. I would bet that some SMB are a fit and others are not. Our tech is what's different, so when shopping, just know that we are more than servers and storage in a box.
Yup, I appreciate the price... and that's why we need it, otherwise we can't gauge where it might fit. @cakeis_not_alie felt that SMB was a bad fit, so just showing him where we got the idea from.
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@cakeis_not_alie said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
@scottalanmiller Then SimpliVity needs to be kicked for it. Twenty lashes with a wet noodle and no internet for a week!
SME? Yes. SMB? No. SimpliVity doesn't play down at my level, except for my very largest clients.
Let me be perfectly clear: SimpliVity started with a MIDMARKET focus and moved up channel.
Now, we could have debates about what is SMB, what is Midmarket and what is Enterprise, but I have actual definitions to use for this: https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/061.nsf/eng/02804.html
The midmarket is defined by the Canadian government as 100+ employees. And that's about right for where SimpliVity starts to be a real consideration. I'm going to say whomever believes that is "SMB" is out of touch with the real mass market and what SMB means, especially outside the USA.
And maybe that's the kicker. US definitions and "pretty much the rest of the world" differ a lot here. Important to consider.
What I"ve always heard in the US (except for IBM) is that SMB is 500 and fewer. But ten or fewer is SOHO. So 10-500 for SMB. Still a loose number because employee count is not a solid gauge of size.
IBM considered SMB something like 5,000+ which is why they were so confused when they tried selling on Spiceworks.
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@scottalanmiller Which is my point: there is a massive disconnect between what vendors and pretty much anyone else means when they say "SMB", especially
- If they ARE an small business
- If they aren't American
Which is why I point to https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/061.nsf/eng/02804.html as my definition of terms. Because it's an official source, with statistics that can be discussed and is relevant to me, personally, as a Canadian.
So based off of the definition of "small" contained in that source, I stand firm on my statement that SimpliVity doesn't have - and won't for quite some time - an SMB play. If you want to use an IBM definition of SMB, they sure they do.
But maybe, for the sake of sanity, we should all agree to the definition of terms if we're going to have a poo-flinging contest over who is priced right, or using the right pricing approaches for a given market segment.
Otherwise, we might as well just shred some dictionaries and throw the confetti at eachother whilst screeching incoherently and beating our chests.
Ook, ook, ooooooooooooooook!
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Even with the definition that SMB is 10-500, and SME is 500-2,000 (which is what was taught back when I was trained) it doesn't change the fact that most SMBs would still be under 100 because the smaller SMBs are the larger percentage within the group.
I don't like an SMB break line at 100, because the behaviour of a 40 person company and a 150 person company and a 220 person company are essentially identical in IT. The bigger ones just spend more.
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@scottalanmiller I should also point out here that in Canada, which is a fairly advanced economy, only %0.14 of businesses are larger than 500 employees. If your definition of the market is that SMB is < 500 seats, the midmarket is > 500 seats and the enterprise starts north of 1000 (or 5000) seats, then you're shrinking "enterprise" down below a fraction of a percent of all businesses.
Which, when you consider that basically every "thought leader", salesdroid, marketdroid and CEO dismisses non-enterprises as "irrelevant" makes me want to start punching things.
It's bad enough for only %0.14 of businesses to be "relevant". I am a strong advocate of not shrinking the number of "relevant" businesses, if possible. If only so that I don't feel even less like a mote of dust in an uncaring and actively hostile universe.
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@cakeis_not_alie said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
@scottalanmiller I should also point out here that in Canada, which is a fairly advanced economy, only %0.14 of businesses are larger than 500 employees. If your definition of the market is that SMB is < 500 seats, the midmarket is > 500 seats and the enterprise starts north of 1000 (or 5000) seats, then you're shrinking "enterprise" down below a fraction of a percent of all businesses.
Yes, in the US it is accepted that something like 98% of businesses are SMB, and far less than 1% are enterprise. Only a handful are considered enterprise. Fortune 500 and little else.
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I've worked for 1,400 seat hedge funds making many, many billions of dollars per year (the company, not me personally) and they would never call themselves enterprise. They were mid-market but called themselves SMB because they felt so small.
