What Are You Doing Right Now
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@thanksajdotcom Give it a chance... Maybe you'll get a new GM who is also halfway decent... and one who can fire the Sales manager....
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@dafyre said:
@thanksajdotcom That is the situation I am in -- kinda. At my last job, I had my hand in all the cookie jars... At my new employer, I am a Systems Administrator only... We have a lot of nice Cisco Networking gear that I could quickly fix issues on, but I am a System Administrator, not part of the Networking Team. (Sadly, all of our IT Functions are siloed like that... it breaks my heart).
I do like my bosses and folks that I work with, so that is a plus!
Welcome to the enterprise space
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@dafyre said:
Sadly, this is a state level job, so yeah, I don't see that happening any time soon, lol.
I've rarely seen any large company not like that.
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@dafyre said:
@thanksajdotcom Give it a chance... Maybe you'll get a new GM who is also halfway decent... and one who can fire the Sales manager....
Sadly the only one who can fire the sales manager is the district manager, and he's a bigger idiot than the sales manager (and that's saying something). But no, even if I got a new GM who was great, the standard rule is that once a GM leaves, the stuff who were tenured under him kind of just leave too. There are only really three of us left who are tenured under my current GM. In five years, I can guarantee none of us will be there anymore.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@dafyre said:
Sadly, this is a state level job, so yeah, I don't see that happening any time soon, lol.
I've rarely seen any large company not like that.
We're semi-large here (4,000 ish employees depending on season). But we have cross over. Technician's don't. But most of us as Linux Admins also do networking too. We also have server techs on top of the desktop techs that don't have cross over either they just rack stuff and deal with physical hardware and cabling in the DC (granted they will rack switches, routers and replace them too so maybe it is cross over). We have around 100 Linux VMs per Admin (and many of us are contract).
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@dafyre, the flip side to my GM not being able to fire my sales manager, despite how much he wants to, is that my sales manager cannot fire me without my GM's approval, and that will never happen. Even if my sales manager writes me up, my GM has to sign off on it to approve the write-up, and if it's not reviewed with me by both the GM and sales manager within a certain time frame it invalidates the write-up. My GM can basically use a filibuster technique to invalidate write-ups that way. I'm sorry but I get a chuckle out of that.
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@thanksajdotcom said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
I can't believe how many people let end users manage their own computer just because it is remote.
yeah, that is a bizarre one.
I'm starting to realize that most IT pros are ignorant, and somehow just got into the field. I also think this might be why I have trouble getting some job offers, because they don't want to hire someone smarter than them.. Not that I'm all that smart.
I've struggled at many a job because of that...I don't do well with limiting the scope of my vision. That is one way that NTG was both good and bad for me. At NTG, if it was on the network, we handled it. The job after that, I was a glorified secretary. Have an issue with this product? Call the vendor. That product? Call the vendor? Need something on their phone system tweaked? Schedule a tech from another vendor. We didn't actually get to work on much directly. Going from the one extreme to another was a HUGE system shock and ultimately why it didn't work out there.
NTG spoiled me in the "you see an issue, fix it" style of work. Granted, if there was something to RMA, etc, we'd reach out to the manufacturer. Or if it was a TWC issue, we'd work with them. But the whole thing about just calling all these different vendors and techs, made me realize how unique NTG is in their "one-stop shop" mentality. Not how most businesses handle things. I don't think most businesses have enough confidence in their techs to do that.
I wonder how much of this came from me because I came from a background of "you never call the vendor." Not that you literally would never call, but you only call when it is their fault (bug in code or whatever.) You never ask them to do the IT job for the IT people - if you do, you aren't the IT person but just a vendor coordinator. I've never worked in a place where it was culturally acceptable to turn to the vendor for IT tasks that are the IT department's responsibility. I've carried that on. You lose a lot of advantages when you do that (delays, lack of cohesive vision, etc.)
It is only since joining some online communities that I even learned that there were vendors that would participate in this and would do IT work or handhold in the way that they do.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
I can't believe how many people let end users manage their own computer just because it is remote.
yeah, that is a bizarre one.
I'm starting to realize that most IT pros are ignorant, and somehow just got into the field. I also think this might be why I have trouble getting some job offers, because they don't want to hire someone smarter than them.. Not that I'm all that smart.
I've struggled at many a job because of that...I don't do well with limiting the scope of my vision. That is one way that NTG was both good and bad for me. At NTG, if it was on the network, we handled it. The job after that, I was a glorified secretary. Have an issue with this product? Call the vendor. That product? Call the vendor? Need something on their phone system tweaked? Schedule a tech from another vendor. We didn't actually get to work on much directly. Going from the one extreme to another was a HUGE system shock and ultimately why it didn't work out there.
NTG spoiled me in the "you see an issue, fix it" style of work. Granted, if there was something to RMA, etc, we'd reach out to the manufacturer. Or if it was a TWC issue, we'd work with them. But the whole thing about just calling all these different vendors and techs, made me realize how unique NTG is in their "one-stop shop" mentality. Not how most businesses handle things. I don't think most businesses have enough confidence in their techs to do that.
I wonder how much of this came from me because I came from a background of "you never call the vendor." Not that you literally would never call, but you only call when it is their fault (bug in code or whatever.) You never ask them to do the IT job for the IT people - if you do, you aren't the IT person but just a vendor coordinator. I've never worked in a place where it was culturally acceptable to turn to the vendor for IT tasks that are the IT department's responsibility. I've carried that on. You lose a lot of advantages when you do that (delays, lack of cohesive vision, etc.)
It is only since joining some online communities that I even learned that there were vendors that would participate in this and would do IT work or handhold in the way that they do.
Doesn't make sense to me. It seems a lot of companies do that though.
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@thanksajdotcom This is why it is helpful to be friendly with those higher up than your direct supervisor(s), lol.
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@dafyre said:
@thanksajdotcom This is why it is helpful to be friendly with those higher up than your direct supervisor(s), lol.
Or you know just everyone in general.
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@scottalanmiller said:
I wonder how much of this came from me because I came from a background of "you never call the vendor." Not that you literally would never call, but you only call when it is their fault (bug in code or whatever.) You never ask them to do the IT job for the IT people - if you do, you aren't the IT person but just a vendor coordinator. I've never worked in a place where it was culturally acceptable to turn to the vendor for IT tasks that are the IT department's responsibility. I've carried that on. You lose a lot of advantages when you do that (delays, lack of cohesive vision, etc.)
It is only since joining some online communities that I even learned that there were vendors that would participate in this and would do IT work or handhold in the way that they do.
It also depends on the problem. I've worked in Student Information systems that were buggy as all get out. Sure, IT can work aroudn the issues with a few SQL Queries and patch the problem until it happens again... But instead, we should call the vendor and see what their recommendations are first. If they say "We'll fix it later"... Then "A patching we will go... "
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
I can't believe how many people let end users manage their own computer just because it is remote.
yeah, that is a bizarre one.
I'm starting to realize that most IT pros are ignorant, and somehow just got into the field. I also think this might be why I have trouble getting some job offers, because they don't want to hire someone smarter than them.. Not that I'm all that smart.
I've struggled at many a job because of that...I don't do well with limiting the scope of my vision. That is one way that NTG was both good and bad for me. At NTG, if it was on the network, we handled it. The job after that, I was a glorified secretary. Have an issue with this product? Call the vendor. That product? Call the vendor? Need something on their phone system tweaked? Schedule a tech from another vendor. We didn't actually get to work on much directly. Going from the one extreme to another was a HUGE system shock and ultimately why it didn't work out there.
NTG spoiled me in the "you see an issue, fix it" style of work. Granted, if there was something to RMA, etc, we'd reach out to the manufacturer. Or if it was a TWC issue, we'd work with them. But the whole thing about just calling all these different vendors and techs, made me realize how unique NTG is in their "one-stop shop" mentality. Not how most businesses handle things. I don't think most businesses have enough confidence in their techs to do that.
I wonder how much of this came from me because I came from a background of "you never call the vendor." Not that you literally would never call, but you only call when it is their fault (bug in code or whatever.) You never ask them to do the IT job for the IT people - if you do, you aren't the IT person but just a vendor coordinator. I've never worked in a place where it was culturally acceptable to turn to the vendor for IT tasks that are the IT department's responsibility. I've carried that on. You lose a lot of advantages when you do that (delays, lack of cohesive vision, etc.)
It is only since joining some online communities that I even learned that there were vendors that would participate in this and would do IT work or handhold in the way that they do.
Doesn't make sense to me. It seems a lot of companies do that though.
I agree, I have no idea where the value comes from, other than an attempt to cover up that IT isn't doing or isn't able to do what they need to do. If I was running and IT department and figured out that my employees weren't working but were just calling vendors and letting them do everything, I'd likely just eliminate them. Anyone can ask a vendor to do work, don't need high pay, skilled IT people for that.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@dafyre said:
@thanksajdotcom This is why it is helpful to be friendly with those higher up than your direct supervisor(s), lol.
Or you know just everyone in general.
Generally, I agree... but there is almost always that one person who just refuses to let you be friendly to them.
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@dafyre said:
It also depends on the problem. I've worked in Student Information systems that were buggy as all get out. Sure, IT can work aroudn the issues with a few SQL Queries and patch the problem until it happens again... But instead, we should call the vendor and see what their recommendations are first. If they say "We'll fix it later"... Then "A patching we will go... "
People soft? I always say replace the crappy software.
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@thecreativeone91 PowerCampus... By and large, it works okay, but there are a lot of little bugs that IT has to work around... quite often.
They are looking for new software already... Got another year left on the contract.
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@dafyre said:
@thanksajdotcom This is why it is helpful to be friendly with those higher up than your direct supervisor(s), lol.
Amen to that. Well my sales manager flat out told my GM not to hire me back (technically this is the 4th time I've been hired at that store). Then there was some day where the sales manager worked on computers for nine hours and my GM said that he's a manager and can't be tied up like that, so I was hired. That being said, it doesn't hurt I'm the best salesperson that store has ever had. No exaggeration. I'm also not trying to brag with that, but it's the truth. My sales were always outstanding and still are. (The new ET Expert might give me a run for my money though...which in all fairness he should because he's full-time but that hasn't been enough for anyone else in the past lol) But my GM was the one who had the most issues with me when I first started at Staples. It was my ORIGINAL sales manager who bent over backwards to keep me there and eventually my GM and ops manager learned how to handle me and all was good. But they were also good managers and worked to learn how to work best with each associate instead of insisting that everyone conform to their one style.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@dafyre said:
It also depends on the problem. I've worked in Student Information systems that were buggy as all get out. Sure, IT can work aroudn the issues with a few SQL Queries and patch the problem until it happens again... But instead, we should call the vendor and see what their recommendations are first. If they say "We'll fix it later"... Then "A patching we will go... "
People soft? I always say replace the crappy software.
Staples still uses that for their associate connection site. They've used it for many years.
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@thanksajdotcom said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
@dafyre said:
It also depends on the problem. I've worked in Student Information systems that were buggy as all get out. Sure, IT can work aroudn the issues with a few SQL Queries and patch the problem until it happens again... But instead, we should call the vendor and see what their recommendations are first. If they say "We'll fix it later"... Then "A patching we will go... "
People soft? I always say replace the crappy software.
Staples still uses that for their associate connection site. They've used it for many years.
It's bad. Made by oracle so that explains a lot of it. Not as bad as Munis though http://www.tylertech.com/solutions-products/munis-product-suite
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@scottalanmiller said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
I can't believe how many people let end users manage their own computer just because it is remote.
yeah, that is a bizarre one.
I'm starting to realize that most IT pros are ignorant, and somehow just got into the field. I also think this might be why I have trouble getting some job offers, because they don't want to hire someone smarter than them.. Not that I'm all that smart.
I've struggled at many a job because of that...I don't do well with limiting the scope of my vision. That is one way that NTG was both good and bad for me. At NTG, if it was on the network, we handled it. The job after that, I was a glorified secretary. Have an issue with this product? Call the vendor. That product? Call the vendor? Need something on their phone system tweaked? Schedule a tech from another vendor. We didn't actually get to work on much directly. Going from the one extreme to another was a HUGE system shock and ultimately why it didn't work out there.
NTG spoiled me in the "you see an issue, fix it" style of work. Granted, if there was something to RMA, etc, we'd reach out to the manufacturer. Or if it was a TWC issue, we'd work with them. But the whole thing about just calling all these different vendors and techs, made me realize how unique NTG is in their "one-stop shop" mentality. Not how most businesses handle things. I don't think most businesses have enough confidence in their techs to do that.
I wonder how much of this came from me because I came from a background of "you never call the vendor." Not that you literally would never call, but you only call when it is their fault (bug in code or whatever.) You never ask them to do the IT job for the IT people - if you do, you aren't the IT person but just a vendor coordinator. I've never worked in a place where it was culturally acceptable to turn to the vendor for IT tasks that are the IT department's responsibility. I've carried that on. You lose a lot of advantages when you do that (delays, lack of cohesive vision, etc.)
It is only since joining some online communities that I even learned that there were vendors that would participate in this and would do IT work or handhold in the way that they do.
Doesn't make sense to me. It seems a lot of companies do that though.
I agree, I have no idea where the value comes from, other than an attempt to cover up that IT isn't doing or isn't able to do what they need to do. If I was running and IT department and figured out that my employees weren't working but were just calling vendors and letting them do everything, I'd likely just eliminate them. Anyone can ask a vendor to do work, don't need high pay, skilled IT people for that.
This was my issue with the job I went to after NTG. Now, granted, some of those systems were VERY proprietary and were not updated well. Some of the systems required Java version 6 with some specific update to work correctly! For proprietary software, sure, I'll reach out to a vendor who does it all day than spend hours trying to muddle through it myself. However, for something like changing settings on a phone system or adding an extension, etc, to me it came down to they didn't trust their techs enough, which means they weren't hiring the right people.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
@dafyre said:
It also depends on the problem. I've worked in Student Information systems that were buggy as all get out. Sure, IT can work aroudn the issues with a few SQL Queries and patch the problem until it happens again... But instead, we should call the vendor and see what their recommendations are first. If they say "We'll fix it later"... Then "A patching we will go... "
People soft? I always say replace the crappy software.
Staples still uses that for their associate connection site. They've used it for many years.
It's bad. Made by oracle so that explains a lot of it. Not as bad as Munis though http://www.tylertech.com/solutions-products/munis-product-suite
Yup, I know. They used to use it for A LOT more but they've gone to all in-house developed systems for a lot now.
