Non-IT News Thread
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It's a lot like heroin. Heroin is terrible, right? It destroys lives. We should make it illegal. Make it impossible to get. Protect people from themselves.
Does that work? No, evidence says it does not. The evidence says that when we make heroin illegal we increase its market value, create a market for drug pushers, make it very hard for addicts to get help, make addicts fear the people who might help them, punish people who have already punished themselves and do nothing to help society but, in fact, encourage more damage. And more recently, we find that corruption around it because so lucrative that the FDA authorized making artificial heroin that is even more addicting and less helpful for treatments.
It makes sense to want to stop drug use. But evidence says that helping people with drug problems reduces crime AND reduces drug use and that making drugs illegal creates crime and actually end up funding the spread of drugs by making something with no natural value very lucrative.
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@Dashrender said:
Those willing to walk out in public generally probably have more self confidence, willing to stand up in public to harrasment they would receive, but the loaners do their best to avoid that.
Maybe that is true. But a lot of those people walking around with guns, I assume, are not in packs. Like the airport guy. Maybe he is the rarity.
The thing is.... needing a pack of heavily armed people suggests (to me at least) that these are truly timid, terrified people trying to bulk up their self confidence by carrying big weapons and scaring innocent people. They aren't standing up to harassment, they ARE the bullies (even if only mentally.) The exact things that I have a problem with is that they are scared bullies running in gangs or gang-like groups. Maybe that is better than loaners, but both are pretty bad.
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actually I disagree - I think that people should be allowed to take all the drugs they want - ok not really, but I'm driving a point here. Like alcohol, drugs are something that people should be able to do if they want, and be accountable for their own actions and other requirements they might encounter (thinking higher healthcare here) because of this use.
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@Dashrender said:
actually I disagree - I think that people should be allowed to take all the drugs they want - ok not really, but I'm driving a point here. Like alcohol, drugs are something that people should be able to do if they want, and be accountable for their own actions and other requirements they might encounter (thinking higher healthcare here) because of this use.
You disagree by agreeing? LOL I believe that drugs should be legal. But the logic that allowing people to have guns will protect them is the same logic that people use that we should control the drugs. Both feel obvious when we talk about them, both end up being the inverse when put into practice. Allowing guns makes everyone scared and in danger and blocking drugs does the same thing.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
actually I disagree - I think that people should be allowed to take all the drugs they want - ok not really, but I'm driving a point here. Like alcohol, drugs are something that people should be able to do if they want, and be accountable for their own actions and other requirements they might encounter (thinking higher healthcare here) because of this use.
You disagree by agreeing? LOL I believe that drugs should be legal. But the logic that allowing people to have guns will protect them is the same logic that people use that we should control the drugs. Both feel obvious when we talk about them, both end up being the inverse when put into practice. Allowing guns makes everyone scared and in danger and blocking drugs does the same thing.
lol I got distracted and didn't read past the first sentence of your post....
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LOL. Over time I've become very pro-drug. Prohibition does no one any good. We are destroying much of Latin America because America has made drugs illegal creating drug markets all over that part of the world. The damage done is unbelievable.
And the damage to the US is unthinkable too. But there is so much money in the status quo that no matter how much it would help the country or the people, they won't do anything about it.
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@scottalanmiller said:
The US has a recent epidemic of mass shootings from these people.
@JaredBusch said:
Prove it.
All of the shootings I am aware of have been lone mentally unstable individuals or individuals acting with the assistance of Islamic extremeist (another whack job nutter group).
Note, that you specifically said these people
This conversation has been about Open Carry extremists. Prove the connection.
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And you do make a good point about the gun toters, but a single people going out I think looks a lot more like a nut job - aka Atlanta dipshit! I guess I look at them (the gun toters) like people going out raising awareness for their politician, cause, etc... a lone person just looks like a nutter, a group might make you consider their point better. But yeah, people are scared by it.. so it's self defeating....
To me personally I simply look at the disarmament of citizen in pre war Europe, this is why I think our rights to own arms are so important - not for a militia, for an over powered government. It's probably really already to late, citizens can probably be easily overrun, the best that believe in holding the government accountable can hope for is that if the government ever comes knocking to remove weapons, that an unfortunate confrontation would make them stop by public pressure.
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@JaredBusch said:
Note, that you specifically said these people
This conversation has been about Open Carry extremists. Prove the connection.
I consider people who carry assault weapons in public to be extremists. I guess you are correct, the people doing the carrying might not be extremists about carrying in public and may just be doing the action of carrying.
I was never really talking about people who were extremists about carrying guns in public, I was talking about the extremists who were carrying guns in public. There are plenty of "pro gun" people who don't carry and don't want to carry themselves. I don't fear them. There are, I assume, lots of people who don't care if we have the right to carry assault weapons in public but take advantage of the fact that we do.
I've been meaning to refer to the extremism of actually carrying in public, not the extremism of believing that we should be allowed to.
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@Dashrender said:
But yeah, people are scared by it.. so it's self defeating....
I find it a bit far fetched to think that any significant number of assault rifle toting "gangs" don't intend to be intimidating. So scaring people is what I see as their goal, by and large. They might state otherwise because it is actually illegal to intentionally terrorize people. But doing so while claiming you are raising awareness is a grey area where you'd have to prove intent.
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I agree with that, as I personally have no desire to carry in public the weapons i own, other than a conceal carry piece.
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@Dashrender said:
To me personally I simply look at the disarmament of citizen in pre war Europe, this is why I think our rights to own arms are so important - not for a militia, for an over powered government. It's probably really already to late, citizens can probably be easily overrun, the best that believe in holding the government accountable can hope for is that if the government ever comes knocking to remove weapons, that an unfortunate confrontation would make them stop by public pressure.
How do you feel an armed populace would have changed Pre-War Europe? And which war are you speaking of?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
To me personally I simply look at the disarmament of citizen in pre war Europe, this is why I think our rights to own arms are so important - not for a militia, for an over powered government. It's probably really already to late, citizens can probably be easily overrun, the best that believe in holding the government accountable can hope for is that if the government ever comes knocking to remove weapons, that an unfortunate confrontation would make them stop by public pressure.
How do you feel an armed populace would have changed Pre-War Europe? And which war are you speaking of?
Well, because of the mind set of Europe, it probably wouldn't have made much of a difference at all. But here it most certainly would.
What is your opinion of the FEMA camps that have been built? What purpose do you see that they serve? Guard towers and razor wire...
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@Dashrender said:
Well, because of the mind set of Europe, it probably wouldn't have made much of a difference at all. But here it most certainly would.
In what way? Make a difference for what? I have no idea what you are suggesting. The US was armed to the teeth at home yet went into both World Wars (and several before that) anyway. It didn't stop us from becoming embroiled in the same wars as Europe.
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@Dashrender said:
What is your opinion of the FEMA camps that have been built? What purpose do you see that they serve? Guard towers and razor wire...
The US doesn't need FEMA to build concentration camps. We invented concentration camps. The rest of the world copied us.
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Perhaps it's time to break this out into another thread.
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Break it into its own concentration thread?
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Problem is, it's just a discussion, no single other thread would hold it
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@scottalanmiller said:
Problem is, it's just a discussion, no single other thread would hold it
I disagree, but it is not my forum to run.
My Opinion: Split the original news article and the following conversation out of the main non-it news thread into's it's own thread tagged non it news
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I'm fine with that. @Dashrender I'm not sure where you were headed with the FEMA discussion. Want to start a new thread based on that intention?
