Non-IT News Thread
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@Dashrender said:
I think non Americans are more afraid because weapons are so closely controlled, the idea of general citizens having these weapons just makes them afraid.
I don't feel this is true at all. It could be, but I think that's a really unlikely reason to feel that way.
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I'm not saying that a good number of those parading around with rifles strapped in open carry aren't mentally unstable - and fine - OK I agree that them running around like this in general is ridiculous, and it's probably likely that those who are mentally unstable will do something crazy...
But you know personally people who are carrying as part of the protests that have gone off on shooting sprees? and if not personally, just specifically?
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@Dashrender said:
But much of the actual killing going on in this country with guns is gang on gang. But look at places like London and there are roaming gangs, small cliches of mostly young men are beating, mugging and knifing people constantly. These kids don't fear a single individual in their country... conceal carry definitely has some of the bangers taking a second thought.
And yet London is far safer than any major American city, even NYC one of the US' safest. So while concealed carry does make them think twice, it always makes them more armed in general and apparently more likely to fire.
So I think you've just stated one of the biggest arguments against allowing guns - the real world data says that the American rationals don't hold water.
I totally agree with the concepts in the US about why "good guys having guns" can make us safer. But, the facts simply state empirically and very obviously otherwise.
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@Dashrender said:
But you know personally people who are carrying as part of the protests that have gone off on shooting sprees? and if not personally, just specifically?
No, I don't know a single person who would openly threaten the safety of the public in this way and hope to never meet one.
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I didn't believe the whole roaming gangs in London.. until I witnessed a 20's something kid run into a 50+ man and they almost came to blows... only the old man's wife pulling him back kept them from going at it... I've never been to NYC, but Dallas, Orlando, LA, SF - I've NEVER seen anything like this.
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It's leading to ask if I've ever met a mass murder, that makes it sound like maybe these gun nuts never become mass murders. But I know people who've been SHOT by gun nuts, just not the gun nuts themselves.
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@Dashrender said:
I didn't believe the whole roaming gangs in London.. until I witnessed a 20's something kid run into a 50+ man and they almost came to blows... only the old man's wife pulling him back kept them from going at it... I've never been to NYC, but Dallas, Orlando, LA, SF - I've NEVER seen anything like this.
I've walked miles through what are supposed to be the absolute worst parts of London, never saw anything that made me even keep my eyes low or worry. I've walked the whole east Docklands at twilight. I walked across London six miles just this past May, not a worry in the world, at 1am - 4am.
London is certainly more dangerous than most of Europe. But that's only because Europe is so insanely safe. But Dallas, Houston, Orlando, LA.... are so much more dangerous.
You are, I think, letting one anecdote in a big city make you fearful of what logically is the safer choice. Like seeing a plane crash on the news and driving instead of flying no matter how much more dangerous driving is. You need to look at the stats. And the stats say that both the US and guns make places more dangerous. It's consistent data.
And did those Brits have guns?
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You also have to keep in mind that you are white and affluent. Your fear level in American cities is not very indicative of their actual safety.
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Not sure how this list gets made, but notice that the US makes the Top Ten list with a city in our richest state and is comparable to cities literally in war zones and in the drug war areas:
http://americanlivewire.com/2014-02-16-10-most-dangerous-cities-2014-camden/
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In other news...
LLAMAS!
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama
Youtube Video -
@scottalanmiller said:
The US has a recent epidemic of mass shootings from these people.
Prove it.
All of the shootings I am aware of have been lone mentally unstable individuals or individuals acting with the assistance of Islamic extremeist (another whack job nutter group).
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
The US has a recent epidemic of mass shootings from these people.
Prove it.
All of the shootings I am aware of have been lone mentally unstable individuals or individuals acting with the assistance of Islamic extremeist (another whack job nutter group).
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-follman-rise-in-mass-shootings-20141020-story.html
Since 2011 a mass shooting happes every 64 days.
Every one of them has guns. That's how they become shootings. I'm not aware of any where they got the guns from the victims. They all had guns before they went to shoot everyone.
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@JaredBusch said:
All of the shootings I am aware of have been lone mentally unstable individuals or individuals acting with the assistance of Islamic extremeist (another whack job nutter group).
Aren't these just ways to describe anyone who is shooting lots of people? Of course people shooting other people are mentally unstable. But they all come from groups with access to guns, or nearly all. And one could argue that people walking around brandishing weapons in public alone constitutes being mentally unstable.
I'm only saying that people who carry around guns are the ones that shoot people, most of the time.
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The issues that I'm pointing out are these two anecdotes:
- I never see anyone, mass shooter or just general gun nut, toting around this kind of hardware. It's rare enough that I've never once seen it in public.
- What case of mass shootings would the person on their way to the shooting have not been "just another gun nut" until they opened fire?
The only people I hear about carrying these weapons are the people who decided to use them (except that crazy guy in Atlanta.)
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@scottalanmiller said:
@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
The US has a recent epidemic of mass shootings from these people.
Prove it.
All of the shootings I am aware of have been lone mentally unstable individuals or individuals acting with the assistance of Islamic extremeist (another whack job nutter group).
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-follman-rise-in-mass-shootings-20141020-story.html
Since 2011 a mass shooting happes every 64 days.
Every one of them has guns. That's how they become shootings. I'm not aware of any where they got the guns from the victims. They all had guns before they went to shoot everyone.
if anything this proves that citizens having guns out in public doesn't make put them in more danger... if anything it has proven the opposite (conceal carry holders saving other peoples lives).
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@scottalanmiller said:
@JaredBusch said:
All of the shootings I am aware of have been lone mentally unstable individuals or individuals acting with the assistance of Islamic extremeist (another whack job nutter group).
Aren't these just ways to describe anyone who is shooting lots of people? Of course people shooting other people are mentally unstable. But they all come from groups with access to guns, or nearly all. And one could argue that people walking around brandishing weapons in public alone constitutes being mentally unstable.
I'm only saying that people who carry around guns are the ones that shoot people, most of the time.
Uh, well, you can only be shot by someone carrying around guns, unless you take a gun from someone at the scene which you admitted rarely happens.
These nutters who are walking around with assault weapons around their shoulders aren't the ones that then later go out on killing sprees...
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
The US has a recent epidemic of mass shootings from these people.
Prove it.
All of the shootings I am aware of have been lone mentally unstable individuals or individuals acting with the assistance of Islamic extremeist (another whack job nutter group).
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-follman-rise-in-mass-shootings-20141020-story.html
Since 2011 a mass shooting happes every 64 days.
Every one of them has guns. That's how they become shootings. I'm not aware of any where they got the guns from the victims. They all had guns before they went to shoot everyone.
if anything this proves that citizens having guns out in public doesn't make put them in more danger... if anything it has proven the opposite (conceal carry holders saving other peoples lives).
How does it prove that? How many concealed carriers have stopped how many shootings compared to countries where they can't have guns at all? The numbers do not suggest what you are saying. Name any country where not having access to guns has led to more public shootings.
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@Dashrender said:
These nutters who are walking around with assault weapons around their shoulders aren't the ones that then later go out on killing sprees...
Aren't they? Isn't nearly every mass shooting some guy with an assault weapon on his shoulder right up until he starts shooting? I'm not saying that every one of these people is a mass murder yet, I'm saying that everyone shooting people with an assault weapon was one of these guys up until he pulled the trigger in public.
Am I missing something? How are the mass shooters not assault weapons carriers prior to the shootings?
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I'm only comparing us against ourselves.. not against other countries where guns are rare or flat out illegal.
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@Dashrender said:
if anything it has proven the opposite (conceal carry holders saving other peoples lives).
I'd rather have hundreds of people not shot than get to brag about saving a few once they are being shot at. Concealed weapon "successes" at the expense of deaths is still a loss.
