Any outlook guru's here?

Dashrender

@scottalanmiller said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@Dashrender said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@Dashrender said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@scottalanmiller said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

google meets meeting , and they can't access it from outlook - my guess is that it's something similar to the above - told them to copy the url below the "link" and paste it in the web browser to see if it would go for the meeting-

This is the issue. They "can't access Google Meets" from the "email client." There seem to be one of two options to this.

They are SO dumb that they think that a web URL is going to use Outlook as the web browser instead of the actual web browser.

They have received the email instead of Outlook and when they click the link, it does not take them to the meeting.

To "access" something these are the only two logical conclusions from the statement. Either they are trying to access to or access from. Otherwise, how is Outlook even involved?

when he clicks on the meeting invite he gets an error that says "this operation failed" from outlook directly. as for which of the 2 it is, I can't be sure
I found this i was going to try

OK - now we're getting somewhere - do you have a copy of the link you can share that they are clicking on inside Outlook?

I do not, have not been given access to the customer device yet
waiting for him to accept the remote support session , they are in their lunch rush right now

Still have not gotten access so I wont know until maybe tomorrow

but from what I can understand is he just needs to switch to g-mail through google workplace (?) and that will solve 10/11 problems he's having

While that might solve 10/11 problems - the biggest issue you're going to have is getting them to give up Outlook.

I had a customer who had Outlook and On-Premise Exchange - they switched to a third party hosted email solution (not gsuite) through IMAP but refused to give up Outlook. As far as I could tell, there was nothing special about their use of Outlook, they weren't advanced users, used like 5% of the feature. The issue was - it was what they were used to and didn't want to change!

I have a SAMIT video about that exact thing (change, not Outlook) already up and edited and going live any day. I think you'll really like the perspective in it.

How often do you think someone who is currently unwilling to change sees a video like this (any video - not just yours) and actually takes heed to any knowledge in them?

scottalanmiller

@Dashrender said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@scottalanmiller said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@Dashrender said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@Dashrender said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@scottalanmiller said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

google meets meeting , and they can't access it from outlook - my guess is that it's something similar to the above - told them to copy the url below the "link" and paste it in the web browser to see if it would go for the meeting-

This is the issue. They "can't access Google Meets" from the "email client." There seem to be one of two options to this.

They are SO dumb that they think that a web URL is going to use Outlook as the web browser instead of the actual web browser.

They have received the email instead of Outlook and when they click the link, it does not take them to the meeting.

To "access" something these are the only two logical conclusions from the statement. Either they are trying to access to or access from. Otherwise, how is Outlook even involved?

when he clicks on the meeting invite he gets an error that says "this operation failed" from outlook directly. as for which of the 2 it is, I can't be sure
I found this i was going to try

OK - now we're getting somewhere - do you have a copy of the link you can share that they are clicking on inside Outlook?

I do not, have not been given access to the customer device yet
waiting for him to accept the remote support session , they are in their lunch rush right now

Still have not gotten access so I wont know until maybe tomorrow

but from what I can understand is he just needs to switch to g-mail through google workplace (?) and that will solve 10/11 problems he's having

While that might solve 10/11 problems - the biggest issue you're going to have is getting them to give up Outlook.

I had a customer who had Outlook and On-Premise Exchange - they switched to a third party hosted email solution (not gsuite) through IMAP but refused to give up Outlook. As far as I could tell, there was nothing special about their use of Outlook, they weren't advanced users, used like 5% of the feature. The issue was - it was what they were used to and didn't want to change!

I have a SAMIT video about that exact thing (change, not Outlook) already up and edited and going live any day. I think you'll really like the perspective in it.

How often do you think someone who is currently unwilling to change sees a video like this (any video - not just yours) and actually takes heed to any knowledge in them?

It's not for them, it's for their CEOs and CIOs who are easily tricked by them.

Dashrender

@scottalanmiller said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@Dashrender said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@scottalanmiller said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@Dashrender said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@Dashrender said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@scottalanmiller said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

google meets meeting , and they can't access it from outlook - my guess is that it's something similar to the above - told them to copy the url below the "link" and paste it in the web browser to see if it would go for the meeting-

This is the issue. They "can't access Google Meets" from the "email client." There seem to be one of two options to this.

They are SO dumb that they think that a web URL is going to use Outlook as the web browser instead of the actual web browser.

They have received the email instead of Outlook and when they click the link, it does not take them to the meeting.

To "access" something these are the only two logical conclusions from the statement. Either they are trying to access to or access from. Otherwise, how is Outlook even involved?

when he clicks on the meeting invite he gets an error that says "this operation failed" from outlook directly. as for which of the 2 it is, I can't be sure
I found this i was going to try

OK - now we're getting somewhere - do you have a copy of the link you can share that they are clicking on inside Outlook?

I do not, have not been given access to the customer device yet
waiting for him to accept the remote support session , they are in their lunch rush right now

Still have not gotten access so I wont know until maybe tomorrow

but from what I can understand is he just needs to switch to g-mail through google workplace (?) and that will solve 10/11 problems he's having

While that might solve 10/11 problems - the biggest issue you're going to have is getting them to give up Outlook.

I had a customer who had Outlook and On-Premise Exchange - they switched to a third party hosted email solution (not gsuite) through IMAP but refused to give up Outlook. As far as I could tell, there was nothing special about their use of Outlook, they weren't advanced users, used like 5% of the feature. The issue was - it was what they were used to and didn't want to change!

I have a SAMIT video about that exact thing (change, not Outlook) already up and edited and going live any day. I think you'll really like the perspective in it.

How often do you think someone who is currently unwilling to change sees a video like this (any video - not just yours) and actually takes heed to any knowledge in them?

It's not for them, it's for their CEOs and CIOs who are easily tricked by them.

LOl - those are the people I meant. Granted I only work in small companies - but this problem has always stemmed from the top.

scottalanmiller

@Dashrender said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@scottalanmiller said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@Dashrender said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@scottalanmiller said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@Dashrender said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@Dashrender said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@scottalanmiller said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

google meets meeting , and they can't access it from outlook - my guess is that it's something similar to the above - told them to copy the url below the "link" and paste it in the web browser to see if it would go for the meeting-

This is the issue. They "can't access Google Meets" from the "email client." There seem to be one of two options to this.

They are SO dumb that they think that a web URL is going to use Outlook as the web browser instead of the actual web browser.

They have received the email instead of Outlook and when they click the link, it does not take them to the meeting.

To "access" something these are the only two logical conclusions from the statement. Either they are trying to access to or access from. Otherwise, how is Outlook even involved?

when he clicks on the meeting invite he gets an error that says "this operation failed" from outlook directly. as for which of the 2 it is, I can't be sure
I found this i was going to try

OK - now we're getting somewhere - do you have a copy of the link you can share that they are clicking on inside Outlook?

I do not, have not been given access to the customer device yet
waiting for him to accept the remote support session , they are in their lunch rush right now

Still have not gotten access so I wont know until maybe tomorrow

but from what I can understand is he just needs to switch to g-mail through google workplace (?) and that will solve 10/11 problems he's having

While that might solve 10/11 problems - the biggest issue you're going to have is getting them to give up Outlook.

I had a customer who had Outlook and On-Premise Exchange - they switched to a third party hosted email solution (not gsuite) through IMAP but refused to give up Outlook. As far as I could tell, there was nothing special about their use of Outlook, they weren't advanced users, used like 5% of the feature. The issue was - it was what they were used to and didn't want to change!

I have a SAMIT video about that exact thing (change, not Outlook) already up and edited and going live any day. I think you'll really like the perspective in it.

How often do you think someone who is currently unwilling to change sees a video like this (any video - not just yours) and actually takes heed to any knowledge in them?

It's not for them, it's for their CEOs and CIOs who are easily tricked by them.

LOl - those are the people I meant. Granted I only work in small companies - but this problem has always stemmed from the top.

The first key tool is to get IT to stop believing them. They lie and too often IT repeats known or suspected lies as if they are true which makes it that much easier to keep lying.

Dashrender

@scottalanmiller said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@Dashrender said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@scottalanmiller said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@Dashrender said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@scottalanmiller said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@Dashrender said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@Dashrender said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@scottalanmiller said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

google meets meeting , and they can't access it from outlook - my guess is that it's something similar to the above - told them to copy the url below the "link" and paste it in the web browser to see if it would go for the meeting-

This is the issue. They "can't access Google Meets" from the "email client." There seem to be one of two options to this.

They are SO dumb that they think that a web URL is going to use Outlook as the web browser instead of the actual web browser.

They have received the email instead of Outlook and when they click the link, it does not take them to the meeting.

To "access" something these are the only two logical conclusions from the statement. Either they are trying to access to or access from. Otherwise, how is Outlook even involved?

when he clicks on the meeting invite he gets an error that says "this operation failed" from outlook directly. as for which of the 2 it is, I can't be sure
I found this i was going to try

OK - now we're getting somewhere - do you have a copy of the link you can share that they are clicking on inside Outlook?

I do not, have not been given access to the customer device yet
waiting for him to accept the remote support session , they are in their lunch rush right now

Still have not gotten access so I wont know until maybe tomorrow

but from what I can understand is he just needs to switch to g-mail through google workplace (?) and that will solve 10/11 problems he's having

While that might solve 10/11 problems - the biggest issue you're going to have is getting them to give up Outlook.

I had a customer who had Outlook and On-Premise Exchange - they switched to a third party hosted email solution (not gsuite) through IMAP but refused to give up Outlook. As far as I could tell, there was nothing special about their use of Outlook, they weren't advanced users, used like 5% of the feature. The issue was - it was what they were used to and didn't want to change!

I have a SAMIT video about that exact thing (change, not Outlook) already up and edited and going live any day. I think you'll really like the perspective in it.

How often do you think someone who is currently unwilling to change sees a video like this (any video - not just yours) and actually takes heed to any knowledge in them?

It's not for them, it's for their CEOs and CIOs who are easily tricked by them.

LOl - those are the people I meant. Granted I only work in small companies - but this problem has always stemmed from the top.

The first key tool is to get IT to stop believing them. They lie and too often IT repeats known or suspected lies as if they are true which makes it that much easier to keep lying.

in most of those small/medium businesses - the CEO/CIO is the head of IT - and they are the ones that are lying to themselves or the company at large.

travisdh1

My favorite thing to do in most of these situations is install the PWA version of Outlook, and uninstall the locally installed version.

This also points out another major shortcoming of Micorsoft's Outlook. Nobody knows which Outlook thing it is by just the name. The free email service? The locally installed software? The PWA? There are probably more that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head.

Dashrender

@travisdh1 said in Any outlook guru's here?:

My favorite thing to do in most of these situations is install the PWA version of Outlook, and uninstall the locally installed version.

This also points out another major shortcoming of Micorsoft's Outlook. Nobody knows which Outlook thing it is by just the name. The free email service? The locally installed software? The PWA? There are probably more that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head.

iOS version
Android Version
Windows full client
Mac Full client
Outlook.com
Outlook Web Access (old Exchange)
Outlook on the Web (current Exchange and O365) (can be pinned as PWA)

Plus they are working on a unified version of Outlook

WrCombs

So this is still an issue - Outlook and Google workspaces aren't syncing the calendar, everything else sync'd.

all research I've done is pointing to 3rd party apps that have no guarantee to actually work

scottalanmiller

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

So this is still an issue - Outlook and Google workspaces aren't syncing the calendar, everything else sync'd.

all research I've done is pointing to 3rd party apps that have no guarantee to actually work

Correct. But don't let the customer define this as a "problem." The two are not related and should not sync. That he's wanting them to sync is the problem. That's like saying that his Google Calendar doesn't sync to MangoLassi. What? Why would it, the two are not related.

So nothing wrong with wanting something that doesn't exist, but he needs to understand that he's asking for something that isn't a thing and acting like it is broken when the issue is that he bought the wrong software for the task that he wants done.

In theory, some third party software MIGHT be able to get the two to talk to each other, but it'll never be official, or supported and could certainly break. He designed this not to work, that's by his own design. If he wants you to try to make it work anyway, don't pretend that you are fixing something that isn't working, you are attempting to overcome a "by design" limitation that he, the customer, put in place personally.

scottalanmiller

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

everything else sync'd.

What is "everything else?" IMAP carries mailboxes, nothing else. It should sync one thing, the email mailboxes. Nothing else is supposed to sync between the two because there is no protocol for anything else. And it isn't really a sync like it sounds, it's that both things sync to the mailbox storage. They don't sync to each other.

WrCombs

@scottalanmiller said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

everything else sync'd.

What is "everything else?" IMAP carries mailboxes, nothing else. It should sync one thing, the email mailboxes. Nothing else is supposed to sync between the two because there is no protocol for anything else. And it isn't really a sync like it sounds, it's that both things sync to the mailbox storage. They don't sync to each other.

everything else is Mailboxes and his phone sync'd the contacts --Which I understand are separate things entirely.

scottalanmiller

@WrCombs For this kind of thing, i highly recommend building a home lab Postfix / Dovecot server and running your own "pure" email system with no extra layers. Understanding exactly what each piece does in a system with nothing layering on extra features, protocols, ports, management, etc. makes it a lot easier to learn the underlying mechanisms which, in turn, helps to make identifying behaviour much easier.

When you manage a pure SMTP / IMAP system, that there IS no calendar, no calendar protocol, etc. becomes really obvious. When someone demands unrelated components be connected, it's obvious when "there's no tool for that here."

In this case, Outlook lacks a Google Calendar connector or viewer, that's not something Outlook offers. Why does the customer expect it to do so when Outlook was never supposed to do that? Knowing what the customer has set up (an IMAP reader) helps to instantly identify when they are asking for something that makes no sense.

scottalanmiller

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@scottalanmiller said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

everything else sync'd.

What is "everything else?" IMAP carries mailboxes, nothing else. It should sync one thing, the email mailboxes. Nothing else is supposed to sync between the two because there is no protocol for anything else. And it isn't really a sync like it sounds, it's that both things sync to the mailbox storage. They don't sync to each other.

everything else is Mailboxes and his phone sync'd the contacts --Which I understand are separate things entirely.

Right, so only email synced. That's kinda different than "everything else." One implies a straightforward email mechanism that is working exactly as designed. The other suggests a complex web of things in which one component is failing.

WrCombs

@scottalanmiller said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@scottalanmiller said in Any outlook guru's here?:

@WrCombs said in Any outlook guru's here?:

everything else sync'd.

What is "everything else?" IMAP carries mailboxes, nothing else. It should sync one thing, the email mailboxes. Nothing else is supposed to sync between the two because there is no protocol for anything else. And it isn't really a sync like it sounds, it's that both things sync to the mailbox storage. They don't sync to each other.

everything else is Mailboxes and his phone sync'd the contacts --Which I understand are separate things entirely.

Right, so only email synced. That's kinda different than "everything else." One implies a straightforward email mechanism that is working exactly as designed. The other suggests a complex web of things in which one component is failing.

I see that now

scottalanmiller

In this case I think everything is going to come down to setting and managing customer expectations. Why did the customer install a tool that was almost entirely wrong for his (or any) use case? What made him thing that Outlook was acceptable or would work when it would normally be really obvious that it is wrong in every way (this is a pattern that would never be expected to work, let alone the specific situation.)

So that's something you need to figure out internally. Was this a pure customer mistake (he ignored advice and made a decision despite being told this was nuts) or did someone accidentally tell him that Outlook would be okay to use? Then figure out how to frame the options.

The options are basically these...

Live with the limitations he's chosen and move on.
Stop using Outlook.
Switch from Google email to Office 365.
Use a third party connector that is unsupported.

That's it.

WrCombs

sent over recommendation and leaving it at that .
thanks !