SAMIT: IBM Is Killing Off CentOS
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@Pete-S said in SAMIT: IBM Is Killing Off CentOS:
What you normally do on Debian if you need a newer kernel is to just run stable and install a newer kernel from the Debian Backports repository. There you have a selection of newer packages that has been backported to stable.
Yeah, I had to do that just last week
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@Pete-S said in SAMIT: IBM Is Killing Off CentOS:
But Debian stable never becomes as old as RHEL/CentOS so the need for newer kernels on servers is not prevalent.
Yeah, RHEL gets so ridiculously out of date.
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@JaredBusch said in SAMIT: IBM Is Killing Off CentOS:
@Pete-S said in SAMIT: IBM Is Killing Off CentOS:
@scottalanmiller said in SAMIT: IBM Is Killing Off CentOS:
Ubuntu starts from Debian stable
No, that's not true. Ubuntu start from Debian testing (and unstable to some degree).
You can clearly see it in the kernel version. Debian 10 (stable) is on 4.19 branch and Ubuntu 20.04 LTS is on 5.4 and Ubuntu 20.10 is on 5.8 I believe.
Newly installed Debian 10.8 system I setup on Friday.
jbusch@dt-jared ~]$ ssh daerma-eq Linux eq 4.19.0-14-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.171-2 (2021-01-30) x86_64Yes, Debian stable normally uses the LTS release of the linux kernel.
So 4.19 was the last LTS release of 4.x
Then you had 5.4 and 5.10 is now the latest LTS release.So Debian 11 will almost certainly use the 5.10 kernel. Debian 11 has no official release date but it expected to be somewhere around summer time this year.
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I believe Ubuntu just announced that 5.10 was coming in 21.04 as well.
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@scottalanmiller I just installed Ubuntu 20.10 Desktop last night. I felt so dirty.
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@JaredBusch said in SAMIT: IBM Is Killing Off CentOS:
@scottalanmiller I just installed Ubuntu 20.10 Desktop last night. I felt so dirty.
Why?
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@scottalanmiller said in SAMIT: IBM Is Killing Off CentOS:
https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/open-source/opensuse-leap-ready-be-new-centos
I have yet to use openSUSE as a headless server.
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@pattonb Have you given any thought to bailing on Linux entirely? FreeBSD is pretty good and no danger of becoming proprietary. I've used for decades. And the more and more Linux goes the wrong directions, the more and more I want to free myself of it entirely. Almost there.
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Someday I spinned OpenBSD, just to feel proud
OpenBSD - Only two remote holes in the default install, in a heck of a long time!
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@gotwf FreeBSD reminded me about OpenBSD. For what purpose or services you were using FreeBSD?
Not sure what it makes not to use OpenBSD or FreeBSD as CentOS and Ubuntu, even though they are known for solid.
Is that because continuous improvements in features, security and support?
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FreeBSD is a very nice unix-like OS. More so than the linux kernel, GNU utils and various code that linux distros cobble together.
But it's not as versatile, for instance with hardware drivers. That's the drawback of having a smaller user base.
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@openit said in SAMIT: IBM Is Killing Off CentOS:
OpenBSD - Only two remote holes in the default install, in a heck of a long time!
You need to read that right. Key phrase being "default install". Not to take anything away from that, but mostly we use default install as a base platform for other stuff. And therein lies the rub. True, OpenBSD does a lot more due diligence than some when it comes to packages. But FreeBSD is no slouch either.
@openit said in SAMIT: IBM Is Killing Off CentOS:
@gotwf FreeBSD reminded me about OpenBSD. For what purpose or services you were using FreeBSD?
Not sure what it makes not to use OpenBSD or FreeBSD as CentOS and Ubuntu, even though they are known for solid.
Is that because continuous improvements in features, security and support?
As for OpenBSD vs FreeBSD, it is not an either or deal. I have been using OpenBSD since circa 2.5 (?) for more security sensitive applications, dns, firewalls and such. FreeBSD offers more versatility for general server use, more packages, and had the port system, wh/OpenBSD did not implement until much later. FBSD also has ZFS. For those interested in on the metal file systems, I guess I should mention DragonflyBSD and hammerfs. But who other than cloud providers are running anything on the metal server side these days?
@Pete-S said in SAMIT: IBM Is Killing Off CentOS:
FreeBSD is a very nice unix-like OS. More so than the linux kernel, GNU utils and various code that linux distros cobble together.
But it's not as versatile, for instance with hardware drivers. That's the drawback of having a smaller user base.
I'll concede the point if your main/only metric is versatility and your primary use case is desktop or mobile. Mine is not.
As for drivers otherwise, depends on what hardware. For years FBSD kicked arse on Linux server side. Especially early years, nics, raid controllers, etc. and pretty much all else server side - then Linux's niche as well. Early Linux tcp/ip was horrible comparatively, for example. Even as late as "Code Red". Linux got more traction, more developers, and they raided *BSD drivers for "inspiration" so they could call them new works and license GPL. Remember when the "real enemy" was M$ and NT. Once that victory became a fait accompli the penguinistas needed a new enemy: the BSD's and pretty much all else not licensed GPL.
Ah, the marketing wars and psyops fud. Linux had RH behind it. FreeBSD only was ever ROSS. Real Open Source Software. Curious, how many here used RH early-mid 90's. RPM's were like Slack, had to track down all depends manually. About then I discovered FreeBSD and what a godsend their package and ports system were. Clearly superior and light years ahead. Well.. we all know how that history panned out. Mindshare. Linux became the darling of the media. Meanwhile, Yahoo, then the world's largest web site quietly built out on FreeBSD.
Post Dot Com Bomb, FreeBSD really suffered. They'd embarked upon a major kernel refactor targeting SMP support and performance. The ensuing economic crash resulted in devs employed by Yahoo being laid off. Hence FreeBSD 5.x really sucked for too many years. Then 6.x and 7.x, although improved... still not there. So I bailed on FreeBSD myself somewhere during those years to OpenSolaris because I wanted all that ZFS goodness. Yeah, we all know how that story played out.
That's my take on the history of the 90's thru mid 2000's anyways. Ymmv, but hope you at least enjoyed the stroll....
But... times change. Fast forward to modern days FreeBSD performance is on par or better and OpenSolaris is no more. Yeah, Linux is going to provide better glossy pixel, interface with the latest gadgets, etc. Desktop/Multimedia experience.
Workstation wise, where I am using my box to admin other servers, and maybe also want to run some servers on my Workstation for ease of testing locally and not having to spend money spinning up vm's in the cloud, works great. Take it over Linux any day. Way more stable. Way more sane. And dev is not being driven primarily by for profit companies ready, willing and able to change up the rules at their whim.
So what is this big hardware versatility win? Mainly proprietary GPU's and maybe some sound drivers for higher end multimedia creator use cases. I'm presently sporting an AMD GPU in this box w/four display ports powering three monitors and bunches o' pixels. Works dandy. And didn't break the bank. That said, I am not a gamer. Don't care about creating multimedia. My workstation was mostly for work related tasks rather than play.
And then, once again, came the big bad wolf knockin' at the door: M$ turned over a new leaf, embraced FBSD and raided it for Azure. Now isn't that one a gas? I've not kept up. Am told that M$ gives back "some" to community but mostly holds back. And like a few here, I have good cause to be leery of big companies becoming too involved in FOSS. Cuz I got to ask y'all; "Is this IBM deal the first time you've been burned?". Thought not.
Heh, can you tell I am grouchy mood today? Procrastinating on other things. Apologies for the wall of text.
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Roh, roh!! Hot damn! I forgot to mention bhyve. It's the schnizzle. And I heartell the Evil Empire makes very good use of it.
Here's a bit of irony: SmartOS - hypervisor extraordinaire - also makes very good use of bhyve. Howsomever, there is glitch that horks up using it to run a fbsd guest. Sigh..
But whatever. Like I said, depends on use case and there are niches where I'd reach for Linux (if only to run as bhyve guest;). If you've not explored FreeBSD lately and looking for a R.O.S.S. platform, maybe worth a gander.
And finally, ooohh, la, laaaa... I got me a reputation at Mangolassi! Heh.
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@openit said in SAMIT: IBM Is Killing Off CentOS:
Someday I spinned OpenBSD, just to feel proud
OpenBSD - Only two remote holes in the default install, in a heck of a long time!
I've run several Dragonfly servers.
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@black3dynamite said in SAMIT: IBM Is Killing Off CentOS:
@scottalanmiller said in SAMIT: IBM Is Killing Off CentOS:
https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/open-source/opensuse-leap-ready-be-new-centos
I have yet to use openSUSE as a headless server.
Used to be our standard for many years.
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@gotwf said in SAMIT: IBM Is Killing Off CentOS:
@pattonb Have you given any thought to bailing on Linux entirely? FreeBSD is pretty good and no danger of becoming proprietary. I've used for decades. And the more and more Linux goes the wrong directions, the more and more I want to free myself of it entirely. Almost there.
FreeBSD is safe, but so is Linux. Linux hasn't changed any direction at all. A vendor making a distro of LInux has. FreeBSD downstream vendors have done the same thing. So FreeBSD isn't immune. It's just that calling something FreeBSD itself is like talking about Debian, which is every bit as safe as FreeBSD is from that perspective. So when comparing apples to apples (base, fully free and open distros) they are equal in all but popularity. If you try to compare FreeBSD to RHEL you will get some weird comparisons, or Debian to FreeNAS, or FreeBSD to Linux. Apples to oranges.
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@gotwf Nope, been using Debian since the mid 90's, only really appreciating it in the last 10 years. rarely
have I been disappointed. Usually my error, or hubris. I use it for small smb's and served me very well. as the saying
goes "Debian, been very good to me" ( said with an accent for affect) -
@pattonb Well... I have been doing some testing recently.... I have a NodeBB instance that I need to migrate off CentOS-7. Reputedly, although mongodb dropped support for else but linsux, the freebsd mongodb port runs great. Cool. I have been watching and waiting with bated breath to test this out. Unfortunately, most all hosts hosting fbsd do so via kvm, wh/puts fbsd under the bus from the get go. Contrarily, fbsd's bhyve stuff is reportedly superior ... so.... now that I had access to latest and greatest fbsd-12-patchset I decided to put through the paces.
All was same, on minimally provisioned servers. Insanely minimal. But it is a kind of perverse stress test. VM's were courtesy MNX.io, g1.nano.
Conclusions: Shooting, as always, from the subjective hip:
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MongoDB was consistently a tad bit faster on Debian 10.
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MongoDB succeeded in crashing itself during one of the FreeBSD perf tests. I tried a bit of tuning, wh/helped a bit... but not enough and still crashed.
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MongoDB dropped portability and has been coded Linuse only fore a while now. So not to be unexpected that would run best on Linux. So I'mma gonna' use Debian 10. Cuz I'mma not a fan of 'buntu, okay?
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