MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert
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@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@jmoore said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@jmoore said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@Obsolesce said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
I don't know of any home users still on 7. Nobody keeps a device that long, and would have something later than Win7.
huh, I know many. A few here have been asking about this - I told them.. just buy a new computer, if you still have Windows 7 at home, you really just need a new computer.
Agree with that. I wish people would do that.
Why? Why do we want everyone to replace working computers so often?
Because the people that have computers that came with win7, in most cases, need better hardware to run win10. We have dell here and models that came with 7 such as the optiplex 7010, 790, 780, gx520 are just extremely slow and in many cases not stable with win10.
That's VERY rare, in my experience. People with currently working Windows 7 machines generally have plenty of horsepower for Windows 10.
In general I'll agree with this - as long as you have at least 4 GB of RAM - is it great? of course not, but is it generally as good as Windows 7? yeah it is... and while it's possible for people to visit the upgrade site on their own, in my case, most simply will not - and they want someone else to do it... and after my fees, i generally recommend that this old machine be replaced with something newer - or hell, get rid of it altogether, put their data in google or MS or dropbox and just use their phone/tablet.
If you are still running Windows 7 usefully today... it nearly guarantees that you never needed Windows since you aren't keeping it maintained.
I have no idea how you come to this conclusion? But first I'll say - sure there are likely many that don't need a generic OS like Mac or Windows, and ChromeOS/iOS/Android will do them just fine, but many still don't.
How do you figure that using Windows 7 today means you've not been maintaining it? What software only runs on Windows 10? None that I can think of right this moment. Oh wait - Office 2019, I think perhaps it doesn't work on Windows 7... but that is a Very recent change. Sure there also some games that likely won't work, but these aren't gamers (at least not hardcore ones).
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@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
As for the old hardware, you're not a home user - you can completely manage these devices on your own. These people can not. The cost of upgrading isn't worth it in my opinion compared to the other advantages they gain with a newer system.
I've been doing this for home users. Pop on Ubuntu, Fedora, or ChromeOS. Suddenly it's fast and nowhere near end of life. And finally secure and easy to use!
I'm not talking about moving to a different OS. That's totally different. I am talking about people who stay with Windows specifically.
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And Dashis right, the people I'm talking about need to stay with windows because that is what they know and will not learn anyhting else. While its a shame, its the reality for a lot of people.
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@jmoore said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
And Dashis right, the people I'm talking about need to stay with windows because that is what they know and will not learn anyhting else. While its a shame, its the reality for a lot of people.
IMO, if someone can use Windows 7,they can use Linux with Cinnamon with no training at all. Or maybe a simple pointer to the app store or whatever it's called to find apps easier, but that's 10 seconds.
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@jmoore said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
And Dashis right, the people I'm talking about need to stay with windows because that is what they know and will not learn anyhting else. While its a shame, its the reality for a lot of people.
The reality is that this is already not true - they almost assuredly learned some type of phone OS, and not Windows phone, so they have already learned something else.
Assuming they use Chrome today, they could likely move to ChromeOS pretty easily too, the question with ChromeOS is - does it do everything the user needs/wants? i.e. does it work with their current printer? or will they need to buy a new one? does it work with their camera to download pictures? Do they use a label printer? (granted this one is pretty rare for home use)
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@Obsolesce said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@jmoore said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
And Dashis right, the people I'm talking about need to stay with windows because that is what they know and will not learn anyhting else. While its a shame, its the reality for a lot of people.
IMO, if someone can use Windows 7,they can use Linux with Cinnamon with no training at all. Or maybe a simple pointer to the app store or whatever it's called to find apps easier, but that's 10 seconds.
Again, this is where I disagree - they won't find any apps they are familiar with in that appstore, and this is the huge rub.
People, Mac and Windows users alike, are accustomed to looking online for downloadable installers to get the apps they want. Assuming you can drill into someone's head that they have Fedora and not Linux (because knowing it's Linux is beyond useless to them) so they look for applications that are compatible.
Could they learn to find the printer add function - probably..
could they learn where to find where their pictures are stored - probably.
etc.
so from that point, it would likely work out OK. -
@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
I've been doing this for home users. Pop on Ubuntu, Fedora, or ChromeOS. Suddenly it's fast and nowhere near end of life. And finally secure and easy to use!
Bullshit you have. Maybe a friend or acquaintance or two. But you are not supporting people for free. Total bullshit answer.
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@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
As for the old hardware, you're not a home user - you can completely manage these devices on your own. These people can not. The cost of upgrading isn't worth it in my opinion compared to the other advantages they gain with a newer system.
I've been doing this for home users. Pop on Ubuntu, Fedora, or ChromeOS. Suddenly it's fast and nowhere near end of life. And finally secure and easy to use!
you are being their tech support and what? doing it free?
In my case - I tell them that it's not worth paying me to do it for them. As for as moving them to a Linux distro - it's just not going to happen, not by me, not for people who aren't my extremely close friends who I don't supporting for free.
All of these people who I am telling this to are people who are unable/unwilling to do it themselves, so they need to pay someone to do it.
Completely this. By the time you pay for 2-3 hours of work to do the Windows 10 upgrade, you have bought a new computer. This is a simple sunk cost.
Hardware of this age, while it can work just fine, is pointless to spend the time/cost to upgrade the OS like this.
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Please PLEASE PLEASE do NOT buy those A series AMD laptops - that processor is such a piece of SHIT and it 100x slower than a 8 year old i5 processor. Seriously - I know, I ordered 6 of them before knowing they were shit, and sadly, couldn't return them...
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I had a Win 7 box that hadn't been updated since the c:\windows\temp\cab_* file bug. When I hit update on it yesterday, it said "Upgrading to Windows 10".
I kinda agree with Microsoft on that one, just do it already. Personally, I wouldn't spend my time supporting the things if I had a say in the matter.
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@JaredBusch said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
I've been doing this for home users. Pop on Ubuntu, Fedora, or ChromeOS. Suddenly it's fast and nowhere near end of life. And finally secure and easy to use!
Bullshit you have. Maybe a friend or acquaintance or two. But you are not supporting people for free. Total bullshit answer.
Actually a pretty large customer with scores of gear. And other customers. And acquaintances too. We actually met with a large multi-city logistics firm just yesterday doing this.
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@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
Please PLEASE PLEASE do NOT buy those A series AMD laptops - that processor is such a piece of SHIT and it 100x slower than a 8 year old i5 processor. Seriously - I know, I ordered 6 of them before knowing they were shit, and sadly, couldn't return them...
Well an A series is supposed to be below an i3. But we use A10 here and while they aren't screaming fast, they are pretty good. If you have an i5 and a discrete GPU, heck yeah that's going to blow away an A series - while costing twice as much or more. But if you are using an i3 and software GPU, the A10 will give it a good run at probably a lower price.
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@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
Again, this is where I disagree - they won't find any apps they are familiar with in that appstore, and this is the huge rub.
What apps are people still using Windows 7 only upgrading because of support using or needing? Evaluate that. I bet you find that the answer is... zero. The "we don't have an app" for that argument is weak, because the average user doesn't need any apps. And the "familiar" argument is weak because modern Windows 10 doesn't have what they are used to in its app store either.
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@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
People, Mac and Windows users alike, are accustomed to looking online for downloadable installers to get the apps they want. Assuming you can drill into someone's head that they have Fedora and not Linux (because knowing it's Linux is beyond useless to them) so they look for applications that are compatible.
Why drill that into their head instead of drilling in how everything is now easy, that they can actually do it, and it's free? You are intentionally taking a hard track instead of the super easy one.
- The average user needs no apps at all (this is why Chromebooks work so well.)
- What little the next main group of people need is trivial and you just show them the software store on any OS (Windows works the same, just not well) and ta da, problem solved.
- The remaining group is relatively small and niche. Maybe it's 15%, but it's not big in the consumer space.
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@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
Could they learn to find the printer add function - probably..
could they learn where to find where their pictures are stored - probably.
etc.
so from that point, it would likely work out OK.If you deal with end users any amount, these are exactly functions that Windows makes pretty hard, at least in comparison. We have customers on Windows literally bring us in to "find their photos" because Windows made it so obtuse and confusing. Their decision was to move to Ubuntu to make that task easier!
That was literally last week.
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@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
But will almost always run Ubuntu or Fedora (and definitely ChromeOS) way faster. Not just a little faster, like crazy faster.
How are you getting ChromeOS on an Intel box that had been running windows?
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@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
Could they learn to find the printer add function - probably..
could they learn where to find where their pictures are stored - probably.
etc.
so from that point, it would likely work out OK.If you deal with end users any amount, these are exactly functions that Windows makes pretty hard, at least in comparison. We have customers on Windows literally bring us in to "find their photos" because Windows made it so obtuse and confusing. Their decision was to move to Ubuntu to make that task easier!
That was literally last week.
Well Nautilus file manager is very basic and has a decent search function.
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@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@JaredBusch said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
I've been doing this for home users. Pop on Ubuntu, Fedora, or ChromeOS. Suddenly it's fast and nowhere near end of life. And finally secure and easy to use!
Bullshit you have. Maybe a friend or acquaintance or two. But you are not supporting people for free. Total bullshit answer.
Actually a pretty large customer with scores of gear. And other customers. And acquaintances too. We actually met with a large multi-city logistics firm just yesterday doing this.
Yeah, this is not home users, this is ITSP customers... so you're being paid. Sure, rolling out the upgrade might be worth while in that situation - likely is because they are delaying the spending of money on the migration to a new device, AND as you've said - the upgrade does work pretty damned well.
I'm mainly suggesting this for home users - people who likely won't pay me, or even if they do, if they have any issues, they'll come calling to me and often expect me to fix them for free (i.e. included in previous work).. it's just not worth the hassle in most cases. Of course, they could run into issues on the new device as well, but at least they won't have any legacy cruft from the old machine.
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@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
Please PLEASE PLEASE do NOT buy those A series AMD laptops - that processor is such a piece of SHIT and it 100x slower than a 8 year old i5 processor. Seriously - I know, I ordered 6 of them before knowing they were shit, and sadly, couldn't return them...
Well an A series is supposed to be below an i3. But we use A10 here and while they aren't screaming fast, they are pretty good. If you have an i5 and a discrete GPU, heck yeah that's going to blow away an A series - while costing twice as much or more. But if you are using an i3 and software GPU, the A10 will give it a good run at probably a lower price.
The A9 -9420 (2016) is a complete turd. For windows 10 with 8 GB RAM and an SSD, it's still barely usable, no strike that - it's really not usable. Loading webpages (athenaNet EHR specifically) is horribly slow compared to i5-3210m (2012) with HDD and 4 GB of RAM.
I'm not kidding, when I replaced people's machines - they asked for their old one back.
The online reading I did about this chip (a9-9420) was that it was a total turd, and was a huge blow to AMD.
I haven't used any A10 chips... and maybe, perhaps the Ryzen chips actually are worth a damn compared to the i5's of the world (or better). But getting me to actually spend my money on them.. it's so hard when I've been burned so many times by AMD chips. Am I just unlucky and only end up buying the turd AMD chips? Granted, the last ones I had were from the XP days, and they were tolerable, but dealing with the AMD 4-in-1 drivers was a PITA.
