Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?
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@DustinB3403 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
QNAP is also not a contender in this space, it's on par with a Synology (especially at this scale) and you'd still be limited to the manufacturer warranty.
It has improved, but in no way is on par with Synology.
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@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
170TB Usable from different drives using some aggressive pricing... (prices in USD)
Drive Type Drives Needed in R10 Cost Per Drive Resulting Cost 15TB 24 NA ? 14TB 26 $598 $15548 12TB 30 $471 $14130 10TB 34 $395 $13430 8TB 44 $332 $14608 I can get 14TB drive her in UK for £432.65, 26 of them = £11,248.90. So, I need to fix a box to use them for £3,750 or less...
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
May not bee a good idea, and I dont like QNAP, but it fits the budget...
If the budget doesn't allow for the need, you need to explain to the people making the false budget that they screwed up and you need to fix their thinking. What if they said the budget is $200, what would you do?
IT planning is a mix of "what we can go" and "what we can do" with "cost" and "needs" and "possible funding." All of that goes together. Locking any one of those factors arbitrarily means sabotage - wasting money just to hurt the business. They all have to float together to make a decision.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@DustinB3403 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Still, the budget is the budget. What else would you suggest? I know I could get a QNAP at this cost with the right storage, in RAID 10. May not bee a good idea, and I dont like QNAP, but it fits the budget...
The suggestion is that you either reduce what you need for storage, or expect that warranty would be parts only within the MFR stock terms.
Parts only is fine. I was just curious if it 'came with anything else'...
I'll get that company to put a quote together, but worst case a shitty QNAP is still an option.
Parts only is what you'd get with any vendor who you buy this from. If you assembled it yourself you'd still have "parts only" but literally per piece per manufacturer that something was purchased from.
WD drives, WD 12 month warranty (maybe longer)
SM Chassis - SM warranty
SM motherboard - warranty for just that MB -
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
I can get 14TB drive her in UK for £432.65, 26 of them = £11,248.90. So, I need to fix a box to use them for £3,750 or less...
No one is arguing that. Does QNAP make something in your price range?
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@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
I know I could get a QNAP at this cost with the right storage, in RAID 10.
You sure? How?
Not saying its a good idea by any means, but:
24 bay NAS.
In Raid 10, that is 168 TB, could make do with that... would Raid 60 ever be an option here?
Total: £13,925.23p, unless I added it incorrectly.
Probably a bad idea, but its the budget I have available...
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A smaller unit from QNAP that isn't enough to meet the need is $7500 in the US. Way more than a SuperMicro would be that could meet the need. I don't see how QNAP is coming up for discussion, unless I'm missing something huge. One moment the budget is super tight, the next there is way more money to throw around, or I'm missing some massively cheap QNAP that I've never heard of.
We ruled out Synology, QNAP, and that whole category before because it was too expensive. If we go back to it because you can't afford to be cheaper, we have broken circular logic. They can't both be cheaper. But looking at prices here, QNAP must be like DOUBLE.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Not saying its a good idea by any means, but:
https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/35658-qnap-tvs-2472xu-rp-i5-8g/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMImLiIoYXn4QIVy73tCh0pKQYDEAQYASABEgJ7NPD_BwE
24 bay NAS.24 bay isn't possible, it's too small for your requirement and, like the budget, the requirement is the requirement. So that rules out the QNAP.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
I know I could get a QNAP at this cost with the right storage, in RAID 10.
You sure? How?
Not saying its a good idea by any means, but:
24 bay NAS.
In Raid 10, that is 168 TB, could make do with that... would Raid 60 ever be an option here?
Total: £13,925.23p, unless I added it incorrectly.
Probably a bad idea, but its the budget I have available...
Using drives that will die faster than a dolphin stuck in the Sahara desert. . .
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@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Not saying its a good idea by any means, but:
https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/35658-qnap-tvs-2472xu-rp-i5-8g/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMImLiIoYXn4QIVy73tCh0pKQYDEAQYASABEgJ7NPD_BwE
24 bay NAS.24 bay isn't possible, it's too small for your requirement and, like the budget, the requirement is the requirement. So that rules out the QNAP.
24 bay, 14 tb disks, raid 10 = 168 Tb, no? Unless im doing something wrong...
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
In Raid 10, that is 168 TB, could make do with that... would Raid 60 ever be an option here?
Under no conditions is anything but RAID 10 a viable option. But under no condition is QNAP a viable option. So it all comes down to "what are you willing to do that isn't production ready" to meet an arbitrary budget, and how much of not providing the requirement space are you willing to fudge on? And remember, after RAID overhead and filesystem overhead, your 168 is going to be a LOT smaller than you are expecting.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Not saying its a good idea by any means, but:
https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/35658-qnap-tvs-2472xu-rp-i5-8g/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMImLiIoYXn4QIVy73tCh0pKQYDEAQYASABEgJ7NPD_BwE
24 bay NAS.24 bay isn't possible, it's too small for your requirement and, like the budget, the requirement is the requirement. So that rules out the QNAP.
24 bay, 14 tb disks, raid 10 = 168 Tb, no? Unless im doing something wrong...
Yes, and 170 was your absolutely bottom line.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
We already covered that it is really out of the question to try to use those unreliable drives. Even in RAID 10, the risk here is just absurd.
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I think the way this conversation actually started was like this:
Boss says: We need to setup some sort of backup solutions
Jimmy says: I can do it for X
Boss says: WOW that's amazing, budget signed.
Jimmy says: Well shit now I'm stuck and I need a vendor to give me stuff for free. . -
@DustinB3403 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
I think the way this conversation actually started was like this:
Boss says: We need to setup some sort of backup solutions
Jimmy says: I can do it for X
Boss says: WOW that's amazing, budget signed.
Jimmy says: Well shit now I'm stuck and I need a vendor to give me stuff for free. .Not quite. Im given budget. So, you have x to do y.
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Popping to the shops, will read when back
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@DustinB3403 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
I think the way this conversation actually started was like this:
Boss says: We need to setup some sort of backup solutions
Jimmy says: I can do it for X
Boss says: WOW that's amazing, budget signed.
Jimmy says: Well shit now I'm stuck and I need a vendor to give me stuff for free. .Not quite. Im given budget. So, you have x to do y.
Then you're only option is to say I can only do X, and extended warranties are not an option. I get a 12 month warranty (per part maybe) and that's it.
Or go to your boss(es) and have a real conversation that what they've set aside won't do what they are asking for.
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I think you need to stop and step back and ask yourself what the heck is driving this insanity. This is getting into some crazy territory...
- You are looking to run a system famous for having no support (QNAP.)
- You are looking at running a hobby class system (and not even a good hobby class system) as a giant investment in backups (QNAP)
- You are depending on using hard drives widely to be considered unusable garbage to get the cost within reason.
- You are making a RAID array larger than anyone really considered RAID to be viable, using the largest drives on the market. Minor on its own, but this is beyond what businesses consider the range for RAID.
- You want support options, but in the end all of the options that you are considering are as far from that as possible, not just a lack of unified support, but also vendors for whom you can't stockpile parts or get parts replacement without sending the system back first. Anti-support, for all intents and purposes.
- You are considering non-production RAID systems to try to cut corners.
- You are looking to miss your storage requirements to make it "work."
Any one of these factors on its own, there is some wiggle room in anything. But put it all together, it doesn't add up. It's one reckless decision built on another. You would HAVE to tell the business up front that you are talking about spending in excess of the budget, to put a total joke into production that you can't even stand near, let alone behind. If you build this, you really have to explain that the expectation is that it won't work and the data will be lost.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Not quite. Im given budget. So, you have x to do y.
Also if your boss gave you a budget, then they must know that the budget will not meet the business needs and that somewhere corners are going to be cut.
Warranty, part quality, storage capacity, reliability.
Something has to give to reduce the cost, and the most likely thing to be cut (easily) is the warranty.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@DustinB3403 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
I think the way this conversation actually started was like this:
Boss says: We need to setup some sort of backup solutions
Jimmy says: I can do it for X
Boss says: WOW that's amazing, budget signed.
Jimmy says: Well shit now I'm stuck and I need a vendor to give me stuff for free. .Not quite. Im given budget. So, you have x to do y.
And its' not possible, so you go back and say "can't be done... do you want to adjust the budget, or the goals, or do you want to start over and approach this like a business?"
There are mutliple ways to fix it, but not providing a working solution isn't one of them.
