Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster
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@scottalanmiller said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
HC isn't "shared nothing".
Never said it was. I was implying that a big use case of vSAN has been in a shared nothing architecture.
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@scottalanmiller said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
@EddieJennings said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
That's what I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around: Making shared storage available without the IPOD.
IPOD isn't the natural way to have shared storage. In your mind, as many people do because of marketing, the idea that storage is consolidated and external is just assumed, and that naturally leads you to an IPOD. Stop trying to consolidate and externalize as part of your sharing, and magically you go to hyperconvergence.
Every standalone server in the world is hyperconverged. . .
Compute and storage all in 1 box.
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@Obsolesce said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
@scottalanmiller said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
HC isn't "shared nothing".
Never said it was. I was implying that a big use case of vSAN has been in a shared nothing architecture.
vSAN's only real purpose is for sharing. "Shared" is being used two different ways here.
The components aren't shared, the resulting workload is shared.
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@DustinB3403 said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
@scottalanmiller said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
@EddieJennings said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
That's what I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around: Making shared storage available without the IPOD.
IPOD isn't the natural way to have shared storage. In your mind, as many people do because of marketing, the idea that storage is consolidated and external is just assumed, and that naturally leads you to an IPOD. Stop trying to consolidate and externalize as part of your sharing, and magically you go to hyperconvergence.
Every standalone server in the world is hyperconverged. . .
Compute and storage all in 1 box.
That's absolutely correct, understanding that is key to understanding hyperconvergence. It is that aspect that makes HC so powerful. It also helps people to understand why standalone servers are more reliable than IPODs that cost 600% more.
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@DustinB3403 said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
@scottalanmiller said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
@EddieJennings said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
That's what I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around: Making shared storage available without the IPOD.
IPOD isn't the natural way to have shared storage. In your mind, as many people do because of marketing, the idea that storage is consolidated and external is just assumed, and that naturally leads you to an IPOD. Stop trying to consolidate and externalize as part of your sharing, and magically you go to hyperconvergence.
Every standalone server in the world is hyperconverged. . .
Compute and storage all in 1 box.
Exactly. So back to my original comment in that VSAN has nothing to do with HC...
@Obsolesce said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
@Pete-S said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
Maybe a dumb question, but was it is that makes it hyperconverged solution compared to "just a bunch of hypervisors" with local storage that are managed together?
Is it vSAN (or equivalent)?
Hyperconverged just means everything is in the same box: storage, compute, network... Vsan has nothing to do with the name.
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To better explain hyper-convergence, think of it like this.
You take several smaller boxes and create a virtual, larger box out of the individual smaller boxes.
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@scottalanmiller said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
3PAR makes it less likely to be redundant, rather than more, I would wager.
3PAR is Active/active symmetric architecture with a full fiber mesh between controllers. Most cases where I've seen issues were tied to firmware on SSD's (Specifically the ~4TB Samsung ones) and people making giant RAID 5 pools, or people trying to move the array while it's running (yes this is dumb).
One really nice thing with the array is it does offer pretty solid vVols support with vSphere so you can manage it as a object system in that regards (No need for VMFS).
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@DustinB3403 said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
You take several smaller boxes and create a virtual, larger box out of the individual smaller boxes.
When you say that I think of LPAR combining servers (Bull, Hitachi).
HCI is just about doing for networking and storage what virtualization has already done for computing. -
@StorageNinja said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
@DustinB3403 said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
You take several smaller boxes and create a virtual, larger box out of the individual smaller boxes.
When you say that I think of LPAR combining servers (Bull, Hitachi).
HCI is just about doing for networking and storage what virtualization has already done for computing.That is the goal, do the same thing that virtualization has, but across more boxes with networking.
That's the most simplistic way to explain HCI to laymen.
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@DustinB3403 said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
@StorageNinja said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
@DustinB3403 said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
You take several smaller boxes and create a virtual, larger box out of the individual smaller boxes.
When you say that I think of LPAR combining servers (Bull, Hitachi).
HCI is just about doing for networking and storage what virtualization has already done for computing.That is the goal, do the same thing that virtualization has, but across more boxes with networking.
That's the most simplistic way to explain HCI to laymen.
Sort of, but it then begs the question of "Didn't SAN and VLAN already do that?" And they did, so it's not a great definitely all on its own.
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@StorageNinja said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
3PAR is Active/active symmetric architecture with a full fiber mesh between controllers. Most cases where I've seen issues were tied to firmware on SSD's (Specifically the ~4TB Samsung ones) and people making giant RAID 5 pools, or people trying to move the array while it's running (yes this is dumb).
It's good stuff, but it's good enough that a lot of people stop considering it as real hardware, and start thinking of it as magic.
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@scottalanmiller said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
@DustinB3403 said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
@StorageNinja said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
@DustinB3403 said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
You take several smaller boxes and create a virtual, larger box out of the individual smaller boxes.
When you say that I think of LPAR combining servers (Bull, Hitachi).
HCI is just about doing for networking and storage what virtualization has already done for computing.That is the goal, do the same thing that virtualization has, but across more boxes with networking.
That's the most simplistic way to explain HCI to laymen.
Sort of, but it then begs the question of "Didn't SAN and VLAN already do that?" And they did, so it's not a great definitely all on its own.
But SAN and VLAN don't when you purchase 1 SAN and X servers on top of it to go back and connect to it.
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@StorageNinja said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
@DustinB3403 said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
You take several smaller boxes and create a virtual, larger box out of the individual smaller boxes.
When you say that I think of LPAR combining servers (Bull, Hitachi).
or grid computing
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@DustinB3403 said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
But SAN and VLAN don't when you purchase 1 SAN and X servers on top of it to go back and connect to it.
They still "do for storage what virtualization did for computing" for most people - which is allow consolidation and abstraction.
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@scottalanmiller said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
@DustinB3403 said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
But SAN and VLAN don't when you purchase 1 SAN and X servers on top of it to go back and connect to it.
They still "do for storage what virtualization did for computing" for most people - which is allow consolidation and abstraction.
I suppose if you are going from a bunch of 1U servers with six 300GB 10 NL disks to two 1U servers with 2 disks and a SAN sitting behind it that it looks consolidated. . .
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If I were building my own for a lab, I'd install whatever hypervisor on RAID 1 or 10 (or 5, if I can get SSDs) and StarWind VSAN on both of them and go...
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@DustinB3403 said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
@scottalanmiller said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
@DustinB3403 said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
But SAN and VLAN don't when you purchase 1 SAN and X servers on top of it to go back and connect to it.
They still "do for storage what virtualization did for computing" for most people - which is allow consolidation and abstraction.
I suppose if you are going from a bunch of 1U servers with six 300GB 10 NL disks to two 1U servers with 2 disks and a SAN sitting behind it that it looks consolidated. . .
SAN has always been for storage consolidation. That was its only real purpose for a long time. Using it for anything else was a recent concept. SAN's primary functionality from inception to today was "cost savings through consolidation at the expense of all other primary factors such as performance, reliability, etc."
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@scottalanmiller But my point is from looking at it in layman terms, seeing 3 boxes, verses seeing 6 boxes means "WOOT I saved money"
When the reality is that it likely cost as much or more with going with a well designed, more reliable approach.
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@scottalanmiller said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
Sort of, but it then begs the question of "Didn't SAN and VLAN already do that?" And they did, so it's not a great definitely all on its own.
VLAN's don't provide end to end transport across long distances (unless your that insane person who believes in running layer 2 between continents or data centers at the physical underlay, and want to risk the spanning tree gods destroying your data center). VLAN's don't provide portability of networks across sites. VLAN's don't provide consistent layer 3 and layer 7 security and edge services between hardware. Yes I know PVLAN's exist, and no they don't do all or really any of this (Just useful for guest to guest isolation). Microsegmentation, security service insertion, VxLAN gateways and overlays, policies that stick to VM's (or users of VM's) and follow them etc fall under modern networking virtualization services.
Hypervisors provided similar features to mainframes of old (LPAR) but did so on generic servers, without the need for proprietary hardware. SAN's typically ended up with proprietary disk arrays, and while storage virtualization is a thing, it's generally always tied to one proprietary platform that it hair-pinned through. SDS systems also exist, but your dedicating compute to these platforms while HCI is about being able to flex that pool of resources for storage, compute and networking functions.
Notice I saw generic servers and not just x86. ARM HCI is upon us
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@DustinB3403 said in Infrastructure Needed for Hypervisor Cluster:
I suppose if you are going from a bunch of 1U servers with six 300GB 10 NL disks to two 1U servers with 2 disks and a SAN sitting behind it that it looks consolidated. . .
I'm more a fan of not using spinning drives for boot devices. Flash SATADOM, M.2 devices. Even USB/SD cards (Slower on boot, have to redirect logs) tend to have better thermal resistance to spinning disks.
