KVM Desktop Setup Ideas
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@travisdh1 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
KVM is also nice because you can continue using that machine as a regular desktop as well, if you need to do so. (Can't do that with VMware, Hyper-V or XenServer).
No one expects to use their Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop.
I use Hyper-V on my laptop all the time. Nothing that is actually a productive server, but lots of demos.
When you set out with the need to run VMs was the original intent to do so on your laptop, or later on was the question raised "can my laptop be used to act like a Type 1 hypervisor?"
The order of the questions matter, as they lead you to the result.
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@travisdh1 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@hobbit666 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
What combo is best to "get started" with KVM?
It's just for a standalone machine to host 5-6 VM's.
If they are all linux based, you could run 15 on that.
If they are servers, not desktops. Most desktops will crap out at that low.
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Wow this has become a long thread. Missed a load of stuff. Had a quick look over and need to clarify a few things.
I have a Desktop machine (Dell optiplex 9050, i7, 16gb Ram, 240ssd and 500sata)
This is going to be used as a lab only. Managed remotely like a server would. I've used ESXi before, XenServer, Hyper-V.Even Windows 10 Pro with Virtual Box, VMware player and workstation. Windows 10 with Hyper-V enabled.
The only Hypervisor I haven't tried yet is KVM.
Hence the question where to Start.It'll run a VM as a firewall
One Linux VM
Three Win10pro
(Because the Win10 VM's hence the need to upgrade the RAM) -
When I say combo I mean what Distro as a base os (fedora seems to be popular) and what to use to manage it remotely.
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@hobbit666 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
When I say combo I mean what Distro as a base os (fedora seems to be popular) and what to use to manage it remotely.
Then I stand by the original few suggestions:
@Obsolesce said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@hobbit666 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
What combo is best to "get started" with KVM?
It's just for a standalone machine to host 5-6 VM's.
Fedora Server works great.
and
@scottalanmiller said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@hobbit666 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
What combo is best to "get started" with KVM?
It's just for a standalone machine to host 5-6 VM's.
I really like just using Cockpit. So I start with the latest Fedora which is 29. Install KVM. That's about it.
There are some things you will want that it lacks, but they are mostly around creating the VMs, not day to day. So while they suck and need to be done at the CLI, I still prefer it most of the time. At least for stand alones.
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@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
KVM is also nice because you can continue using that machine as a regular desktop as well, if you need to do so. (Can't do that with VMware, Hyper-V or XenServer).
No one expects to use their Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop.
I have VMs on my local desktop with Hyper-V. Not production but they are good for a lab.
Is it your expectation to use XenServer as a desktop?
FFS did I say something that was confusing.
This is not an expectation generally made that a Type 1 Hypervisor can also be used as a daily driver. Persons who do this are making a case in which they need a daily driver and a Type 1 Hypervisor.
It is not the normal expectation.
I'm late to this - but I absolutely want this - hell I want this for normal users so they can be more protected.
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@Dashrender said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
KVM is also nice because you can continue using that machine as a regular desktop as well, if you need to do so. (Can't do that with VMware, Hyper-V or XenServer).
No one expects to use their Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop.
I have VMs on my local desktop with Hyper-V. Not production but they are good for a lab.
Is it your expectation to use XenServer as a desktop?
FFS did I say something that was confusing.
This is not an expectation generally made that a Type 1 Hypervisor can also be used as a daily driver. Persons who do this are making a case in which they need a daily driver and a Type 1 Hypervisor.
It is not the normal expectation.
I'm late to this - but I absolutely want this - hell I want this for normal users so they can be more protected.
I think you could with VDI. Just gets expensive.
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@hobbit666 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
Wow this has become a long thread. Missed a load of stuff. Had a quick look over and need to clarify a few things.
I have a Desktop machine (Dell optiplex 9050, i7, 16gb Ram, 240ssd and 500sata)
This is going to be used as a lab only. Managed remotely like a server would. I've used ESXi before, XenServer, Hyper-V.So this here means every assumption made about "using this as your daily driver" was clearly wrong. And pinpoints the reason why these questions need to be asked.
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@hobbit666 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
I have a Desktop machine (Dell optiplex 9050, i7, 16gb Ram, 240ssd and 500sata)
This is going to be used as a lab only. Managed remotely like a server would. I've used ESXi before, XenServer, Hyper-V.
.....
The only Hypervisor I haven't tried yet is KVM.So wait, it's desktop hardware, but being treated as a server? That's totally different.
KVM, yes, obviously since that is part of your goal. But definitely not with a local screen. This goes back to ... "I like Cockpit."
If you are just trying to learn, take a look at oVirt, too.
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These three posts seemed to lead to all the problems
@hobbit666 mentions that he's using desktop hardware
which leads @dafyre to assume "regular desktop"
Which leads Scott to assume daily driver (though not said in this post)Now we find out 10 mins ago that this machine while being consumer hardware will in fact be used as a typical, likely headless server.
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@scottalanmiller said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@Dashrender said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@Dashrender said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@Dashrender said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
KVM is also nice because you can continue using that machine as a regular desktop as well, if you need to do so. (Can't do that with VMware, Hyper-V or XenServer).
No one expects to use their Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop.
I have VMs on my local desktop with Hyper-V. Not production but they are good for a lab.
Is it your expectation to use XenServer as a desktop?
FFS did I say something that was confusing.
This is not an expectation generally made that a Type 1 Hypervisor can also be used as a daily driver. Persons who do this are making a case in which they need a daily driver and a Type 1 Hypervisor.
It is not the normal expectation.
I'm late to this - but I absolutely want this - hell I want this for normal users so they can be more protected.
I think you could with VDI. Just gets expensive.
Yeah - normals would love VDI if there was a super easy/cheap way to do it.
It's not THAT bad these days.
Normal users would have a hard time paying $100/yr for it - hell I can't get normals to pay $50/yr for offsite/online backups.
Is it that much now? I don't think so.
You can get Windows VDI for less than $100/yr? I thought the VDI license was that much alone, let alone someone's platform upon which to run it.
Also is VDI in someone else's DC now legal? I thought it wasn't for a while there because you didn't know what hardware it was on? - though I might be misremembering that.
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@Dashrender said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
These three posts seemed to lead to all the problems
@hobbit666 mentions that he's using desktop hardware
which leads @dafyre to assume "regular desktop"
Which leads Scott to assume daily driver (though not said in this post)Now we find out 10 mins ago that this machine while being consumer hardware will in fact be used as a typical, likely headless server.
To be fair, you are correct, I did assume "regular desktop". However, that still doesn't change my recommendation of KVM + Virt-Viewer (I use Virt-Viewer to manage a couple of KVM servers).
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AMD Ryzen and disable SMT, get something with NVMe M2 storage, buy cheapest m2 storage, install OS there, make RAID on the SATA disks, or something else, and use those as VM storage
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@Emad-R said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
AMD Ryzen and disable SMT, get something with NVMe M2 storage, buy cheapest m2 storage, install OS there, make RAID on the SATA disks, or something else, and use those as VM storage
Why? Your OS gets loaded to memory having it on an SSD when your actual workloads aren't doesn't make a lot of sense.
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@coliver said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@Emad-R said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
AMD Ryzen and disable SMT, get something with NVMe M2 storage, buy cheapest m2 storage, install OS there, make RAID on the SATA disks, or something else, and use those as VM storage
Why? Your OS gets loaded to memory having it on an SSD when your actual workloads aren't doesn't make a lot of sense.
Exactly - this is the same reasoning that you don't install ESX-I or Hyper-V on it's own drives - it's a waste of IOPs. Instead give those IOPs to the workload - i.e. just make OBR10, not a smaller RAID 1 for hypervisor and OBR10
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So to continue this conversation.
If you have the space and available hardware, install Fedora Server 29, the KVM role (headless virtualization) and use Cockpit to manage the machine from a remote system.
You could, and is the recommended approach would use Virt-Manager (from a Fedora Workstation) to connect to this KVM hypervisor remotely and manage your VMs and Hypervisor with that. Rather than just using Cockpit.
While Cockpit is a great tool it isn't at all like what many of the other tools you may be familiar with are like.
Virt-Manager would be like XenCenter, where Cockpit would be like XO.
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Going down the rabbit hole of how and where to install Fedora (to SSD, winchester, SD card, an array) all comes back to best practice and what you have at your disposal.
If you have a hardware raid card that would be a good solution to use, as most commodity servers will come with this type of functionality and setup function.
I create my array and then I install my OS (or hypervisor)
If you don't have hardware raid and are wanting to not spend any additional money on this unit, just install Fedora Server with the KVM role directly with how the system assigns the storage. No changes need to be changed. Especially since it appears you're just wanting to learn how to use and manage KVM
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If you do have additional disk space in this tower, and the disks to use. You can add them to the tower and exclude 1 of them (assuming 5 disks) and use the other 4 to create a software RAID 10.
Use the new array as the target for your VMs to be live and run from and go from there.
This would also be a valid and great option, but is similar to splitting the array as we often discuss.
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Setting up a software array during installation isn't an option (when using all disks) because of the file structure. So you are required to either install to a separate medium (stand alone disk) or something like SD card and use the remaining disks to create your array from.
This is where hardware raid has a benefit because you're able to provide all of the IOPS to the hypervisor (and VMs) and have nothing split up.
Of course the hypervisor itself doesn't require much in terms of IOPS performance. But it's the most "simple" way to deal with it and provide a level of protect to the entire environment.
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@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
Setting up a software array during installation isn't an option (when using all disks) because of the file structure. So you are required to either install to a separate medium (stand alone disk) or something like SD card and use the remaining disks to create your array from.
Software raid during installation is possible. Just have to choose Advanced Custom (Blivet-GUI) when choosing storage configuration.
