KVM Desktop Setup Ideas
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@WrCombs said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Anyone looking to go to Nicaragura, my favourite hotel there has reopened and I'm so happy.
this the one we talked about when you picked me up at the air port?
Could be. Tower room with views of ocean, mountains, beach, town, and the resort. Three bedrooms, direct pool access.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
KVM is also nice because you can continue using that machine as a regular desktop as well, if you need to do so. (Can't do that with VMware, Hyper-V or XenServer).
No one expects to use their Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop.
I have VMs on my local desktop with Hyper-V. Not production but they are good for a lab.
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@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
KVM is also nice because you can continue using that machine as a regular desktop as well, if you need to do so. (Can't do that with VMware, Hyper-V or XenServer).
No one expects to use their Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop.
I have VMs on my local desktop with Hyper-V. Not production but they are good for a lab.
Is it your expectation to use XenServer as a desktop?
FFS did I say something that was confusing.
This is not an expectation generally made that a Type 1 Hypervisor can also be used as a daily driver. Persons who do this are making a case in which they need a daily driver and a Type 1 Hypervisor.
It is not the normal expectation.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
KVM is also nice because you can continue using that machine as a regular desktop as well, if you need to do so. (Can't do that with VMware, Hyper-V or XenServer).
No one expects to use their Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop.
I have VMs on my local desktop with Hyper-V. Not production but they are good for a lab.
Is it your expectation to use XenServer as a desktop?
That's impossible, it doesn't offer that feature. Hence your confusion. You are thinking of something totally different.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
FFS did I say something that was confusing.
Yes, you said that it was the expectation that a Type 1 would never be used in a desktop mode. This is confusing because this is an incredibly common use case for Type 1s - Hyper-V and KVM specifically see this all the time and are built specifically to accommodate it.
So much so, in fact, that both are used by automated tooling that use them in this way without even telling the user.
There are entire OSes built around KVM being always used in this way.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
KVM is also nice because you can continue using that machine as a regular desktop as well, if you need to do so. (Can't do that with VMware, Hyper-V or XenServer).
No one expects to use their Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop.
I have VMs on my local desktop with Hyper-V. Not production but they are good for a lab.
Is it your expectation to use XenServer as a desktop?
FFS did I say something that was confusing.
This is not an expectation generally made that a Type 1 Hypervisor can also be used as a daily driver. Persons who do this are making a case in which they need a daily driver and a Type 1 Hypervisor.
It is not the normal expectation.
No? I can't use XenServer as a desktop it doesn't have that option without seriously modifying the system. I could use Xen or KVM though if I was trying to emulate what I have with Hyper-V right now.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
KVM is also nice because you can continue using that machine as a regular desktop as well, if you need to do so. (Can't do that with VMware, Hyper-V or XenServer).
No one expects to use their Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop.
I have VMs on my local desktop with Hyper-V. Not production but they are good for a lab.
Is it your expectation to use XenServer as a desktop?
That's impossible, it doesn't offer that feature. Hence your confusion. You are thinking of something totally different.
No the fuck I'm not.
My point was very clear. Is the general expectation to use a Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop. No, generally it is not. If you need to use a Type 1 hypervisor as your daily driver you would skip past XenServer, Xen, ESXi and XCP-ng and look at alternatives.
But there is in no way the general expectation that a Type 1 hypervisor is and should also be capable of being a daily driver.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
KVM is also nice because you can continue using that machine as a regular desktop as well, if you need to do so. (Can't do that with VMware, Hyper-V or XenServer).
No one expects to use their Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop.
I have VMs on my local desktop with Hyper-V. Not production but they are good for a lab.
Is it your expectation to use XenServer as a desktop?
That's impossible, it doesn't offer that feature. Hence your confusion. You are thinking of something totally different.
No the fuck I'm not.
That makes it much worse.
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Are we talking muggle vs magics here or people who understand what the hell they are working on and those who don't.
WTF
Well - Scott has now declared that we are only talking about actual technical personal (techies) not normal home users.
Every home user desktop/laptop comes with Win10 Home edition. Unless you specify otherwise, that's what you get. Even on gaming computers, they typically come with Home version.
Anyone installing Pro or specifically selecting Pro edition is doing it for Hyper-V or Domain joining, most likely someone in IT, software or web development, testing, etc...
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
My point was very clear. Is the general expectation to use a Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop. .
It is a general expectation that it might be used this way. Absolutely and obviously.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
KVM is also nice because you can continue using that machine as a regular desktop as well, if you need to do so. (Can't do that with VMware, Hyper-V or XenServer).
No one expects to use their Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop.
I have VMs on my local desktop with Hyper-V. Not production but they are good for a lab.
Is it your expectation to use XenServer as a desktop?
That's impossible, it doesn't offer that feature. Hence your confusion. You are thinking of something totally different.
No the fuck I'm not.
My point was very clear. Is the general expectation to use a Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop. No, generally it is not. If you need to use a Type 1 hypervisor as your daily driver you would skip past XenServer, Xen, ESXi and XCP-ng and look at alternatives.
But there is in no way the general expectation that a Type 1 hypervisor is and should also be capable of being a daily driver.
Two of the big three can be used as daily drivers though.
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@Obsolesce said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Are we talking muggle vs magics here or people who understand what the hell they are working on and those who don't.
WTF
Well - Scott has now declared that we are only talking about actual technical personal (techies) not normal home users.
Every home user desktop/laptop comes with Win10 Home edition. Unless you specify otherwise, that's what you get. Even on gaming computers, they typically come with Home version.
Anyone installing Pro or specifically selecting Pro edition is doing it for Hyper-V or Domain joining, most likely someone in IT, software or web development, testing, etc...
That's true, other than AD support, Hyper-V in a desktop mode is the secondary reason for Windows Pro to exist.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
If you need to use a Type 1 hypervisor as your daily driver you would skip past XenServer, Xen, ESXi and XCP-ng and look at alternatives.
Right, like KVM and Hyper-V. You would not look at Xen or ESXi as they don't support this.
Hence why no one is talking about those, only you. And hence why we know you are confused.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
But there is in no way the general expectation that a Type 1 hypervisor is and should also be capable of being a daily driver.
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
People need desktop virtualization all of the time. And in the modern market, there is essentially no reason to ever look at the only good Type 2, VirtualBox, because it is not nearly as good as Hyper-V or KVM. It's not as fast, or not as safe, and certainly not as easy.
The only reason anyone still considers Type 2 is because some people want Windows Home, and there is no Type 1 option.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
And hence why we know you are confused.
okay
Finally.
So step back, realize the base facts you are missing...
- People need virtualization on the desktop.
- Type 1 is almost always the only reasonable way to do this.
- This is so common as to be a VERY general use case.
Now knowing these thing indisputable and obvious facts, what are you trying to say? And why bring up things like ESXi that have nothing to do with the conversation?
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
But there is in no way the general expectation that a Type 1 hypervisor is and should also be capable of being a daily driver.
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
People need desktop virtualization all of the time. And in the modern market, there is essentially no reason to ever look at the only good Type 2, VirtualBox, because it is not nearly as good as Hyper-V or KVM. It's not as fast, or not as safe, and certainly not as easy.
The only reason anyone still considers Type 2 is because some people want Windows Home, and there is no Type 1 option.
I can see for Gamers who also need to do some VMs they may not want the Hyper-V overhead and would aim for type 2.... I hae no idea how much overhead Hyper-V actually introduces though.
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@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
But there is in no way the general expectation that a Type 1 hypervisor is and should also be capable of being a daily driver.
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
People need desktop virtualization all of the time. And in the modern market, there is essentially no reason to ever look at the only good Type 2, VirtualBox, because it is not nearly as good as Hyper-V or KVM. It's not as fast, or not as safe, and certainly not as easy.
The only reason anyone still considers Type 2 is because some people want Windows Home, and there is no Type 1 option.
I can see for Gamers who also need to do some VMs they may not want the Hyper-V overhead and would aim for type 2.... I hae no idea how much overhead Hyper-V actually introduces though.
I thought that at one point, but it is essentially zero. Gaming is fine with it.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
Because there are two thought processes to be discussed, you're imaging that there is only 1.
The First: I need to be able to setup and operate VMs from a Type 1 Hypervisor that can be managed remotely
The later: I need a daily driver that I can setup and use to operate VMs for my workYou're implying that first option does not only exist, but only exist if you say you also need to use your Type 1 hypervisor on your hardware as a daily driver.
That is clearly not the case.
They are separate conversations.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
Because there are two thought processes to be discussed, you're imaging that there is only 1.
The First: I need to be able to setup and operate VMs from a Type 1 Hypervisor that can be managed remotely
that's not part of this discussion, though.
