Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income
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@DustinB3403 said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@JaredBusch said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
Passport free travel in the EU is basically the same as passport free travel between US states.
The US has two hundred more years as a cohesive unit than the EU is all.
Well that, and each EU member has their own country level government. Where each state in the US has only state level governments.
That's kind of the same thing. Each EU member is a member state, and they have state level governments. And a central confederate government.
It IS different than the US, but less different than people think. In many ways, the EU is more centralized, not less, than the US.
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@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@DustinB3403 said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
But no one would say "I'm traveling down the street" or "I'm traveling to Texas".
They'd say "I'm taking a walk" or "I'm moving to Texas"
I wouldn't say I'm "traveling to the UK" either though.
I would say "I'm visiting the UK" or "I'm visiting Texas."
But most people would.
"I like to travel."
"Oh nice, to where have to traveled?"
"UK, Ireland, Mexico, etc."
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@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
I'm not saying that domestic travel isn't valid, just that to most of the world when you say "I like to travel" they assume you mean international. Not "I drive nearby on the weekend."
In Panama, for example, traveling to a different region to go to the beach is not considered travel, it's just what you do on weekends. In America, going to Florida for the weekend is considered a travel activity. Same thing, different viewpoints of the same activity.
Most of America can't drive to Florida for the weekend. Maybe 20% of the country could do that.
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@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
Because you need a passport to GO somewhere else in the US.
You do? Since when do you need a passport to travel between states in the US? I'm going to Chicago next week - I don't plan to take my passport.
We were talking about international travel, not going to the store or whatever. People mean international mostly when they say travel (maybe not americans, again, proving the point that you feel Chicago is travel.)
Also there ARE places in the US where passports are required or effectively required, like southern Texas and Puerto Rico.
huh - I suppose most world citizens likely consider travel to really mean international travel - but I highly doubt that most Americans consider travel to mainly mean international.
I suppose I could ask my stupid FB feed.
Right, that's my POINT. Americans are SO anti-travel that they define it differently than the rest of the world! That's how extreme it is.
Again, your world view is getting in the way. Most other countries are so small that travel inside of them is a day trip and not really considered travel at all.
Wow, you think that's how most countries are? The whole world isn't central Europe. For very few places is international travel a day trip, that's crazy.
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@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
If I lived in London, and visited Paris for the day, I wouldn't really consider that traveling - 2 hr train ride there, visit, 2 hr train ride home. though it would technically be traveling.
It's way more traveling than going to Chicago. It's a serious distance, it's different land masses, it's a different country, both cities are well into their respective countries (not like border towns), different languages, different culture, different history, different food... how much more travel can something be?
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I can take a day trip to Canada. That's the only place where I coud "take a day trip"
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@DustinB3403 said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
I can take a day trip to Canada. That's the only place where I coud "take a day trip"
Or Mexico, if you lived near that border.
In Romania, it takes an entire day just to get from the center of the country to a border. It's nearly impossible to day trip anywhere even from core European countries.
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@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
Because you need a passport to GO somewhere else in the US.
You do? Since when do you need a passport to travel between states in the US? I'm going to Chicago next week - I don't plan to take my passport.
We were talking about international travel, not going to the store or whatever. People mean international mostly when they say travel (maybe not americans, again, proving the point that you feel Chicago is travel.)
Also there ARE places in the US where passports are required or effectively required, like southern Texas and Puerto Rico.
huh - I suppose most world citizens likely consider travel to really mean international travel - but I highly doubt that most Americans consider travel to mainly mean international.
I suppose I could ask my stupid FB feed.
Right, that's my POINT. Americans are SO anti-travel that they define it differently than the rest of the world! That's how extreme it is.
Again, your world view is getting in the way. Most other countries are so small that travel inside of them is a day trip and not really considered travel at all.
Wow, you think that's how most countries are? The whole world isn't central Europe. For very few places is international travel a day trip, that's crazy.
I said inside their own country is a day trip.. But that's not the case for much of the US. A day trip for me is to KC or Des Moines. A weekend trip is Chicago - it's a long weekend (7 hrs by car). A traveling trip is to Dallas, Florida, SF, etc. more like 12+ hours by car.
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@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
If I lived in London, and visited Paris for the day, I wouldn't really consider that traveling - 2 hr train ride there, visit, 2 hr train ride home. though it would technically be traveling.
So NY to London was not traveling during the Concord era? Basically, by defining by "ease" or "time" you risk making travel not even a concept, rather than having it be by location, culture, nationality, etc.
It sounds like I'm about the only person I know of who has even traveled to know what it is like, having been so far that it takes more than a day to come and go and having stayed long enough to need a house, etc. That doesn't really make sense.
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@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@DustinB3403 said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
I can take a day trip to Canada. That's the only place where I coud "take a day trip"
Or Mexico, if you lived near that border.
In Romania, it takes an entire day just to get from the center of the country to a border. It's nearly impossible to day trip anywhere even from core European countries.
THAT'S my point - you can't day to another country - so that's why international is considered traveling there. Because a day trip is almost entirely local, same country.
Well I can do much more than a day trip and STAY completely in the US. It takes 24hrs of driving for me to get to LA. that's traveling.
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@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
Because you need a passport to GO somewhere else in the US.
You do? Since when do you need a passport to travel between states in the US? I'm going to Chicago next week - I don't plan to take my passport.
We were talking about international travel, not going to the store or whatever. People mean international mostly when they say travel (maybe not americans, again, proving the point that you feel Chicago is travel.)
Also there ARE places in the US where passports are required or effectively required, like southern Texas and Puerto Rico.
huh - I suppose most world citizens likely consider travel to really mean international travel - but I highly doubt that most Americans consider travel to mainly mean international.
I suppose I could ask my stupid FB feed.
Right, that's my POINT. Americans are SO anti-travel that they define it differently than the rest of the world! That's how extreme it is.
Again, your world view is getting in the way. Most other countries are so small that travel inside of them is a day trip and not really considered travel at all.
Wow, you think that's how most countries are? The whole world isn't central Europe. For very few places is international travel a day trip, that's crazy.
I said inside their own country is a day trip.. But that's not the case for much of the US. A day trip for me is to KC or Des Moines. A weekend trip is Chicago - it's a long weekend (7 hrs by car). A traveling trip is to Dallas, Florida, SF, etc. more like 12+ hours by car.
Even in places like the UK or Germany, the country itself isn't a day trip.
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@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
If I lived in London, and visited Paris for the day, I wouldn't really consider that traveling - 2 hr train ride there, visit, 2 hr train ride home. though it would technically be traveling.
So NY to London was not traveling during the Concord era? Basically, by defining by "ease" or "time" you risk making travel not even a concept, rather than having it be by location, culture, nationality, etc.
It sounds like I'm about the only person I know of who has even traveled to know what it is like, having been so far that it takes more than a day to come and go and having stayed long enough to need a house, etc. That doesn't really make sense.
Don't over read my statement.
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@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
Don't over read my statement.
Seriously? It's Scott..
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@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
I'm not saying that domestic travel isn't valid, just that to most of the world when you say "I like to travel" they assume you mean international. Not "I drive nearby on the weekend."
In Panama, for example, traveling to a different region to go to the beach is not considered travel, it's just what you do on weekends. In America, going to Florida for the weekend is considered a travel activity. Same thing, different viewpoints of the same activity.
To be fair most countries (outside of China, Russia, and India) have a miniscule landmass compared to the US. It doesn't take then 18 hours to drive to province in the same nation.
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@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
Well I can do much more than a day trip and STAY completely in the US. It takes 24hrs of driving for me to get to LA. that's traveling.
I'm not saying it's not, but without a national difference, culture difference, etc. what really makes it travel more than running to the store? Pure distance? Maybe distance is enough, but for LA, that's all that there is.
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@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
Well I can do much more than a day trip and STAY completely in the US. It takes 24hrs of driving for me to get to LA. that's traveling.
Well compared to typical Americans - you're absolutely right. But I don't believe its for lack of cash to do so, it's because culturally, Americans spend their money on things other than traveling.
toss in the fact that almost no American business will allow a person to be gone for more than 2 weeks in a row - renting a house for months like you have is just weird to most Americans.
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@JaredBusch said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
Don't over read my statement.
Seriously? It's Scott..
I know. that's why I didn't dive into it anymore than the simple statement.
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Although I don't disagree with you most American's can be pretty nationalistic when it comes to "travel" and prefer to stay in the lower 48.... if not just a few states from their home.
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@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
Well I can do much more than a day trip and STAY completely in the US. It takes 24hrs of driving for me to get to LA. that's traveling.
I'm not saying it's not, but without a national difference, culture difference, etc. what really makes it travel more than running to the store? Pure distance? Maybe distance is enough, but for LA, that's all that there is.
lol - yeah - I guess it mainly is purely distance. I'm not into the culture thing like you are. I like amusement parks, and other types of tourist things.. the different food aspects can be interesting.. etc.
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@coliver said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
I'm not saying that domestic travel isn't valid, just that to most of the world when you say "I like to travel" they assume you mean international. Not "I drive nearby on the weekend."
In Panama, for example, traveling to a different region to go to the beach is not considered travel, it's just what you do on weekends. In America, going to Florida for the weekend is considered a travel activity. Same thing, different viewpoints of the same activity.
To be fair most countries (outside of China, Russia, and India) have a miniscule landmass compared to the US. It doesn't take then 18 hours to drive to province in the same nation.
Although let's also compare real world "travel" needs. For one of NTG's team members in Panama to get from her home to the main resort portion of Panama (not the islands, that would make it way longer, still mainland) is a 12.5 hour drive. Far from 18 hours, but far longer than people assume for such a "small" country. The US might be way bigger, but the speed at which we drive around is so much faster than nearly anywhere else.
And 18 hours in the US doesn't cross any significant cultural borders. That same 12 hour drive in Panama crosses some significant ones including ones where the laws, race, history, culture, language, and food all change at least twice.
