Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor
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@JaredBusch said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
My long time understanding is no.
There is no license being upgraded when you are using a new VM like this.
Now, do you have a piece of hardware with a non OEM license that you can decommission and "move" the license to the hypervisor host? That would make it legal.
Obviously move is a fake term for paper trail purposes. You do not have to actually P2V anything. Just mark that license as "used" by the Win 10 instance.
Technically you can't move the license like this. . . so no that isn't legal.
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@DustinB3403 said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
@JaredBusch said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
My long time understanding is no.
There is no license being upgraded when you are using a new VM like this.
Now, do you have a piece of hardware with a non OEM license that you can decommission and "move" the license to the hypervisor host? That would make it legal.
Obviously move is a fake term for paper trail purposes. You do not have to actually P2V anything. Just mark that license as "used" by the Win 10 instance.
Technically you can't move the license like this. . . so no that isn't legal.
Yes you can. Non-OEM as noted.
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My favorite backup software is SCDPM. Nothing that I've tried comes close in almost every aspect, and I've used and evaluated Many. But the costs of it and associated costs are high for SMB.
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@magicmarker said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
What is the typical Veeam backup server OS recommendation for SMB then? Should I be looking at going with a Windows 2016 OS instead?
We always use Windows Server 2016 with ReFS. Another option recommended by Veeam is Windows 10 Pro for Workstations, especially if you are going to use ReFS
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@Obsolesce said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
Straight from the license.rtf in Windows 10:
Doesn't the portion you highlighted make every win 10 PC that shares a printer or file share illegal?
I could be wrong but "sharing" makes it a server, No?
Also, if so, isn't Microsoft knowingly telling users to violate its EULA by putting in documentation on how to share pieces of its OS to other users?
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@pmoncho no because there is a usable limit that is allowed under the license.
So they aren't saying "go ahead do whatever you want".
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@DustinB3403 said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
@pmoncho no because there is a usable limit that is allowed under the license.
So they aren't saying "go ahead do whatever you want".
Makes much more sense now.
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@pmoncho said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
@Obsolesce said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
Straight from the license.rtf in Windows 10:
Doesn't the portion you highlighted make every win 10 PC that shares a printer or file share illegal?
Lower down, in d. iii, it specifically lists file and printer services as exceptions.
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@DustinB3403 said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
@pmoncho no because there is a usable limit that is allowed under the license.
So they aren't saying "go ahead do whatever you want".
it's not a usable limit (that is there too - is it 10 or 20 today?) but file and printer sharing are expressly allowed server functions somewhere else in the eula.
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So here's my question:
Does Veeam do a push or pull type backup? If Veeam is doing a pull only type backup, then how is it acting as a server? The local machine reaches out to the Veeam agent and pulls the backup. I don't see that violating (v).
How would this be any different than using an FTP client to pull data from another server?
If the agent in fact pushes the data - well that's another story.
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@Dashrender what @pmoncho asked was "Doesn't the portion you highlighted make every win 10 PC that shares a printer or file share illegal?"
And there is a limit to the number of concurrent connections.
From SAM on SpiteWorks
"There is no user limit nor necessarily even a way for the OS to know. Modern Windows desktops have a 20 concurrent connection limit which means effectively figure ten or fewer users or machines connected. And this refers to all kinds of things, not just things you might picture like RDP and SMB protocols.
Pretty much if you need to worry about this, you have a design flaw"
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@pmoncho said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
Doesn't the portion you highlighted make every win 10 PC that shares a printer or file share illegal?
No, further down under Device connections, it explains the maximum allowance of that.
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@dave_c said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
@magicmarker said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
What is the typical Veeam backup server OS recommendation for SMB then? Should I be looking at going with a Windows 2016 OS instead?
We always use Windows Server 2016 with ReFS. Another option recommended by Veeam is Windows 10 Pro for Workstations, especially if you are going to use ReFS
Problem is "recommended by Veeam" doesn't mean that you can get a license to do it. That's only for people where MS EULA doesn't apply. Which is a lot of the world (India, China, etc.) but for people in the US and EU and most first world countries, Windows 10 can't be used that way. MS alone determines the usage allowances, not Veeam.
nearly all software vendors do this... they "recommend" super cheap things that are "nearly certain to be a license violation", but since all ethical and legal requirements to use the proper license are on the end user, not on the vendor, they can make those recommendations with impunity.
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@pmoncho said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
@Obsolesce said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
Straight from the license.rtf in Windows 10:
Doesn't the portion you highlighted make every win 10 PC that shares a printer or file share illegal?
I could be wrong but "sharing" makes it a server, No?
It absolutely would, if Microsoft didn't give a specific allowance for that one use case, in very limited situations. The license specifically allows that usage.
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@pmoncho said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
Also, if so, isn't Microsoft knowingly telling users to violate its EULA by putting in documentation on how to share pieces of its OS to other users?
No, for loads of reasons. Remember, nearly everything CAN be used for a legit reason some how.
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@Dashrender said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
@DustinB3403 said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
@pmoncho no because there is a usable limit that is allowed under the license.
So they aren't saying "go ahead do whatever you want".
it's not a usable limit (that is there too - is it 10 or 20 today?) but file and printer sharing are expressly allowed server functions somewhere else in the eula.
That's connections, not users. The user limit is lower in a practical sense since each user normally uses more than one connection.
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@Dashrender said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
So here's my question:
Does Veeam do a push or pull type backup? If Veeam is doing a pull only type backup, then how is it acting as a server? The local machine reaches out to the Veeam agent and pulls the backup. I don't see that violating (v).
How would this be any different than using an FTP client to pull data from another server?
If the agent in fact pushes the data - well that's another story.
Pull is still a server. You are thinking of "server" in a limited way that is not how server is defined. No matter how you slice or dice it, this is a Veeam server (hence the name) providing a "service" to machines on the network. Being a device that central pulls their backups is by definition a server.
The point of backups is not for consumption by that workstation. That's the difference between me using FTP on my desktop to download videos or games. That's for me, on that desktop. This is not for use on this desktop, it's for use in a restore operation.
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@scottalanmiller
Got it. I was speaking on a purely technical way, but that’s a limited view. -
The only really good answer is getting Veeam over to Linux so that this licensing overhead just isn't needed. But it would be a crazy amount of work for them and their customer base, because of their heavy focus on agentless and VMware / Hyper-V is almost purely Windows shops. So the licensing is normally part of an enterprise agreement and really trivial. Those of us affected by the cost of the licensing are not their bread and butter customers.
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@scottalanmiller said in Correct license for a Win 10 Veeam backup server on Type-1 Hypervisor:
The only really good answer is getting Veeam over to Linux so that this licensing overhead just isn't needed. But it would be a crazy amount of work for them and their customer base, because of their heavy focus on agentless and VMware / Hyper-V is almost purely Windows shops. So the licensing is normally part of an enterprise agreement and really trivial. Those of us affected by the cost of the licensing are not their bread and butter customers.
SInce so much of what we talk about here at ML is Linux-based, I was shocked there wasn't a solution there for a Veeam setup. But what you say here makes perfect sense.
